How to build multiple brands with Hind Sebti, Founder of whind & Waldencast

Building, scaling and maintaining one brand is challenging. However, successfully creating multiple brands is a brilliant feat of focus and endurance. With this in mind, I wanted to learn from an expert brand builder.

Hind Sebti is the founder of whind, a beauty brand that merges both science and sensoriality to deliver Golden Hour Beauty, inspired by her home of Morocco, in a high efficacy yet super indulging range of skin care, body care and  fragrances, and the founder of Waldencast, a beauty and wellness platform that creates, acquires and scales the next generation of high growth purpose driven brands. 

Waldencast Ventures, is a privately owned brand incubator that has launched and built whind but also sister brands coat[s] and glaze. Waldencast PLC acquired Obagi skin care and Milk Makeup and was listed on the Nasdaq in July 2022 and valued then at over $1bn.

As a multi-brand founder, Hind has a wealth of experience building brands that win customers’ hearts. 

Keep listening to hear Hind’s advice on building multiple brands and effectively managing different businesses at the same time. 

Hind's advice:

• As a founder you will start by doing everything yourself, but once you have a team you need to prioritise what to do yourself and what to delegate
• Those things only you can do will be the most important things - prioritise!
• Being able to trust your team and confidently delegate is vital; you cannot do everything yourself
• A combination of ambition and humility is good
• When building several brands at once, space out the various processes as you will learn from each one, which will benefit the next one - don’t put all your eggs in the same basket
• Be flexible when building a company culture; every business is different, and every employee works differently.  Allow the employees to contribute to the company culture as people are your most important asset
• Be flexible and adaptable; businesses may not evolve in the way you had expected
• If you can find a partner whose skills complement your own, you are in luck as it’s great to have someone with whom you can discuss decisions

FF&M enables you to own your own PR. Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

Let us know how your start up journey is going or if you have any questions you would like us to discuss in future episodes. 

FF&M recommends: 

• LastPass the password-keeping site that syncs between devices.
• Google Workspace is brilliant for small businesses
• Buzzsprout podcast 'how to' & hosting directory
• Canva has proved invaluable for creating all the social media assets and audio bites.

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod.  Link &

Transcript

12 How to build multiple brands with Hind Sebti, Founder of whind and Waldencast

[00:00:00] Juliet Fallowfield: Welcome to season 10 of How To Start Up, the podcast helping you start and scale your business with advice from entrepreneurs on what to do now, next or never when scaling your company. This season, we're focusing on all things brand. So you'll hear from a series of amazing entrepreneurs on what they've learned in their own journeys.

[00:00:17] Hosted by me, Juliet Fallowfield, founder of the B Corp certified PR and communications consultancy, Fallowfield and Mason. Our mission is to enable you to earn your communications in-house with a long-term view.

[00:00:29] Juliet Fallowfield: Building, scaling, and maintaining one brand is challenging enough. However, successfully scaling and creating multiple brands is a brilliant feat of focus and endurance. And with this in mind, I wanted to have a chat with an expert brand builder. Hind Sebti is the founder of whind, a beauty brand that merges both science and sensoralité to deliver 

[00:00:49] Juliet Fallowfield: golden hour beauty, and also the co founder of Waldencast, a beauty and wellness platform that creates, acquires, and scales the next generation of high growth purpose driven brands. It [00:01:00] does not stop there. Waldencast Ventures is a privately owned brand incubator that has launched and built whind, but also has sister brands, Coats and Glaze.

[00:01:09] Juliet Fallowfield: Waldencast PLC acquired Obagi skincare and milk makeup and was listed on NASDAQ in July 2022 and valued then over $1 billion. As a multi brand builder, Hind has a wealth of experience building brands that win customers hearts across multiple categories. Keep listening to hear Hind's advice on building multiple brands and effectively managing these different businesses at the same time.

[00:01:35] . Thank you Hind for your time today on How to Start Up. It is wonderful to have you here. Before we get into talking about running multiple companies and building multiple brands, it would be wonderful if you could kick off with an introduction that's a bit about yourself and a bit about the businesses that you've started.

[00:01:51] Hind Sebti: Okay. Thank you so much for having me Juliet. So I'm Hind. I am Moroccan born and raised. I've been in the UK for 15 years now and I [00:02:00] spent all my career in beauty. I knew very early on that what I wanted to do was work in this industry because growing up in Morocco, I'm not sure how familiar you with the country, but it's a country

[00:02:09] Hind Sebti: of beauty.

[00:02:10] Hind Sebti: beauty landscape architectures, but beauty rituals. So I saw firsthand how rituals and beauty

[00:02:16] Hind Sebti: rituals are important and kind of a connection with other people and with yourself. So I thought that is would be an amazing industry to be part of. So I started my career 25 years ago in France, which is what I went for school.

[00:02:27] Hind Sebti: And I started at Procter & Gamble. I spent there 10 years or so and moved to the UK

[00:02:33] Hind Sebti: with a PNG. And then I moved to L'Oreal because I knew, as an engineer, I started in supply chain, but I knew I wanted to go into branding.

[00:02:41] Hind Sebti: So I pivoted. I was very happy to do that early on in my career. And since then it's been product management, brand management, and then general management across only beauty, hair, skin, makeup. So yes, that took me from PNG to L'Oreal and after another, quite a few years at L'Oreal, I realised I wanted to continue [00:03:00] my dream into beauty. But this is where the entrepreneurial bug caught up with me. And I was like, but I want to do beauty on my own way. And that was the beginning of the entrepreneurship journey for me.

[00:03:10] Juliet Fallowfield: Amazing. What was it that gave you that bug and how long do you ignore it before you actually embraced it?

[00:03:17] Hind Sebti: You know, it's very interesting because I think you only figure it out backwards, right? Because

[00:03:22] Hind Sebti: it was, it was never evident until it suddenly was, and it became kind of a, like an urgent itch. So for me, it was, I was in my mid to late thirties and I loved the industry, loved my job, was having a lot of fun. But something was missing. And I think for me, it was doing things my own way and having a hundred percent. 

[00:03:41] Juliet Fallowfield: hmm. 

[00:03:49] Hind Sebti: it.

[00:03:49] Hind Sebti: But when I look backwards, I realise that from an early age, one of the values that I value the most is freedom. 

[00:03:56] Juliet Fallowfield: hmm. 

[00:03:57] Hind Sebti: Of like to question ourselves.

[00:03:58] Hind Sebti: I was like, but 20, I was not ready. [00:04:00] I was nowhere ready. And I, we didn't have the maturity, the courage, the readiness to do it. And when people ask me about entrepreneurship, I always say it's not for everyone. You know how it's too glorified. I think sometime. And when it's so glamorous, it's like, it is not that glamorous.

[00:04:13] Hind Sebti: Yeah. If it's for you, it will find you. If it's not for you, that's fine,

[00:04:17] Hind Sebti: because it's a lot of hard work, so you need to really be fulfilling something much deeper, like for me, that desire for freedom, to be able to do it. So.

[00:04:26] Juliet Fallowfield: It's so similar, it makes me laugh because now I'm self employed and I'm in PR and communications. On the outside everyone thinks you go for long lunches and just drink champagne every day.

[00:04:35] Juliet Fallowfield: And on the inside you're like, it's really hard work. And I think for me, similar to you, I had this experience of working for incredible brands and an amazing training school, but it got to the point where I was like, I was done with other people waving their hand at me like, oh, PR will fix this, as if it's sort of dismissive.

[00:04:51] Juliet Fallowfield: I was like, no, I can do, I can do this on my own and I can do it my way. So I love the fact you said that, but it was a real sort of moment in your, your life's journey that it caught up with you. [00:05:00] But when you kind of recognize that, did you think, right, I'm going to be a serial entrepreneur because you're not just running one business, you're running more than one.

[00:05:08] Juliet Fallowfield: Was that evident? Was that a kind of blessing and a curse at the same? 

[00:05:12] Hind Sebti: I think it was a blessing and a curse and it was timing, right? Because from the time when I decided to start something, it had, I mean, it was not just something that was 

[00:05:20] Juliet Fallowfield: What was the something?

[00:05:22] Hind Sebti: for me, it was starting whind,

[00:05:24] Hind Sebti: right? Because it

[00:05:24] Hind Sebti: was the most concrete. I am a brand builder at heart and a beauty obsessed.

[00:05:29] Hind Sebti: And I think just seeing the world of beauty, I was like, 'Oh my God', I am missing something which is a brand that marries both the performance that we all want from beauty and skincare in particular, but also that kind of longing to the rituals and the indulgence that I grew up in. So I found myself a bit frustrated by not finding the best of both worlds both worlds and always compromising.

[00:05:52] Hind Sebti: And so I thought, Oh, I'm if I'm like this, a lot of consumers are like me. So I'm going to create something to answer this functional [00:06:00] need of consumers that want science and sensorialité. And as I started working on it, I realised, and I'm sure it's very something that you have felt

[00:06:07] Hind Sebti: as well, is having worked all my life on other people's brands. Now that I had carte blanche to create my vision of beauty, when it started shaping, I realised that I put a lot of my Moroccan or Mediterranean identity in it as well. And I didn't notice it. People, Other people were like, Oh, Terracotta for skincare.

[00:06:25] Hind Sebti: Oh, this feels Moroccan. And I was like, how? No, there's no Terracotta brand in Morocco. And there's nothing like this in Morocco. And then I realised actually that I put the cues of my interpretation of Morocco, the warmth, et cetera, in it. And then it unlocks a different. And next level of brand building, which is, it's not just about a product that does science and sensorialité is also beauty point of view that

[00:06:47] Hind Sebti: is inspired by how we experience beauty in Morocco, which is warmth sisterhood, you know, in the Hammam ritual, happiness, joy, because it's about, you know, celebrating beauty, not beauty as a chore.

[00:06:59] Hind Sebti: So [00:07:00] that was step one. And it was very concrete for me because I could do it within it. what I learned in my in

[00:07:04] Hind Sebti: my career,. I'm a big believer in universe and timings and things happen for a reason. And before I jumped in I did a sense check, right?

[00:07:13] Hind Sebti: I was like, I need to ask an adult, you know, if this is love. somebody with better sense than me, because I'm a dreamer. So I tend to really jump into things. And I asked Michel Brousset, who used to be my boss in the UK, and then moved on to be the head of L'Oreal consumer North America. And I told him at the time, Michel, I am going to do something mad.

[00:07:31] Hind Sebti: I want to leave this kind of wonderful life that I have today and be sitting on my kitchen table, starting a new brand by myself, I've never worked by myself in my

[00:07:39] Hind Sebti: career, but I won't really want to do it. So tell me if I'm crazy. And actually he did quite the opposite. He said, well, all the growth we see happening today in beauty is coming from independent beauty brand that are coming with it from a place of authenticity.

[00:07:52] Hind Sebti: So I don't think you're crazy at all. Step one. And step

[00:07:55] Hind Sebti: two, he said, and actually I am thinking of the same. I'm thinking of [00:08:00] starting not a brand, but many, many brands and actually starting Waldencast, which is the house of independent beauty brand. Either we create them, we invest in them or we acquire them.

[00:08:10] Hind Sebti: Okay. So we started Waldencast and went at the same time out of just I mean the, the timing couldn't have worked any better. So, yeah. so this is how I ended up from day one, having twins, You know, one baby too, and many, many other, other projects came in after. So it was an accidental luck, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

[00:08:30] Juliet Fallowfield: Every time I ask a founder if there's anything they go back and do differently, it's like, well, no, cause then I wouldn't be here today. And some people will argue with me on this, but I think time is more precious than revenue because money will come and go and it will flow, whereas time is finite.

[00:08:42] Juliet Fallowfield: There are only 24 hours in a day. How do you find the time? 

[00:08:49] Hind Sebti: macro way, if I look at it today. I mean, I, I love this kind of conversation because it's a point in time when you when I stop and think because I don't have time to stop and [00:09:00] think and look backwards.

[00:09:01] Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. 

[00:09:02] Hind Sebti: And, and they look at it and I'm like, when you say, Oh, you've done all these things. It's almost like an aha moment. And I'm like, Oh Yeah.

[00:09:07] Hind Sebti: I actually done these things. And,

[00:09:09] Hind Sebti: I am surprised as well. But then when they look at it backwards, I'm like, actually, from the decision to start Waldencast, right.

[00:09:16] Hind Sebti: It was just the two of us, Michel and I. Waldencast with a big vision to build this amazing beauty company, but just the two of us and our own life savings as the life of the entrepreneur and our investors. And we said, where do we start? So we started in 19, 2019, in March, 2019 with Waldencast ventures where we said we going to invest in other people's brands, we're going to find brands that we think have amazing potential that need resources in terms of money and also operational know how because to scale in beauty is not about passion It's just about passion. you need more because it's a complex industry as as we know so 2019 was a year when we built the Waldencast ventures, where we met more than 500 entrepreneurs invested in seven [00:10:00] brands, learned a bit of the, I call it my PhD in early brands, right?

[00:10:04] Hind Sebti: Because I had worked at Procter & Gamble, L'Oreal. I've never worked in baby brands. yeah.

[00:10:09] Hind Sebti: I

[00:10:09] Hind Sebti: was really through other people's experiences, five hundreds of them and more. Then I was like, Oh my God, so many different stories. And I'm so thankful for that because it's has enriched me so much in terms of the entrepreneurial world.

[00:10:22] Hind Sebti: And by 29, end of 2019, we said, okay, we know how this is working. We had invested in seven brands, minority investment, you know, so it was, it was going. and parallel I was working on whind because that was kind of my personal vision. Yeah. And we were working in a list of brands that we thought were missing in the world that we'd have happily invested in them, had they existed.

[00:10:41] Hind Sebti: And this is where the idea of Glaze came to, to, to us glaze, and we, it came to us from career, a lifetime where we spent in hair colour in our previous lives and thinking this category is so needs a refresh. It's so boring. It hasn't changed for 50 years.

[00:10:54] Hind Sebti: The packaging, the formulas, the application. We need something newer and fresher, like almost like [00:11:00] a tinted moisturiser for your hair to redynamise the category. . Then we

[00:11:03] Hind Sebti: thought about Coats, which is what about Gen Z and all this younger consumers, coming into skincare with no brand that is really educating them.

[00:11:11] Hind Sebti: Oh, the idea of code. So we realized actually now we have so many brand idea. We need to create the

[00:11:14] Hind Sebti: Waldencast brands incubator. So this is where

[00:11:17] Hind Sebti: we started hiring our team here in London to work on the brands We're kind of the founders of because we think of them and conceptualise them, but the team to bring them to life to product development and then go to market. And through this journey and somewhere in COVID in 2020, we realized, Oh, in our vision of building this big beauty company, we have baby brands that we create.

[00:11:39] Hind Sebti: Toddler brands that we invest in is going to take a long time. We need more teenagey brands, sturdy brands. And this is where we were like, Oh, actually, but that requires much more money than private investment. It needs to be publicly, public money. So we went and created Waldencast PLC, which was publicly listed.

[00:11:57] Hind Sebti: And this is how we raised the funds to, to buy a milk and Obagi. 

[00:11:59] Hind Sebti: And and, [00:12:00] and I think when I look back, it was a phasing in 2019, we're focused on ventures and building the foundation 2020, we build our incubator. By the time the brands were ready, we moved on 2021 to do the acquisition. So the timing worked well in the macro scope of things, right? We haven't started them all at the same time. Now, I think one of the biggest learning is sometimes we're always asking how much is too much, right? Because you need, there's so much to do. I mean, as an entrepreneur, you can spend 24/7 working.

[00:12:28] Hind Sebti: There's so much more to do it. You have multiple brands and multiple priorities. It is the same. So what we did, I think what is core is the teams. Then is You need your team that you can rely on and say, okay, what is the thing that I can uniquely do as a founder? And what is

[00:12:44] Hind Sebti: the other things that I can delegate to my team?

[00:12:46] Hind Sebti: And I think that is hard because sometimes it's hard to let go of, you know, babies and projects, et cetera. So for me, this prioritisation of what is important for the future of the business where I spend my time and where am I [00:13:00] uniquely needed? I'm not saying that it was easy. We made mistakes and we'll learn as you go, et cetera. But I think that has been it's the only way you can actually manage multiple things. Is the only way you can manage multiple things. And and When I think about my personal kind of how do I manage the time, I think it's also prioritisation of what is going to make the biggest difference. And

[00:13:21] Hind Sebti: I have to hold myself accountable to it and not get distracted by the thousands of wonderful things that I wish I was doing, which by definition means that I do more of the things I enjoy less, 

[00:13:30] Juliet Fallowfield: . . video. Yeah.

[00:13:32] Hind Sebti: but you know,

[00:13:33] Juliet Fallowfield: I actually caught up with a friend who lives in Sydney and she used to run Lauder over there and big, big beauty career. Now she runs a charity in Australia and I went for a walk with her a couple of years ago in Bondi and she's like, have you not heard of rock, pebble, sand?

[00:13:46] Juliet Fallowfield: I was like, no. And she's like, you've got a glass every day of time. And you need to put the big, chunky, rocky things in first, then put the pebbles around it and then put the sand in. Cause you try and put the sand in first and then the pebbles and the rock, the rock won't fit. The sand are [00:14:00] the emails, the WhatsApp, the notifications, the rocks are the two hour deep dive project focus work.

[00:14:04] Juliet Fallowfield: And I saw her two hours ago and my team were like, Holly, you talked about rock and they use it all the time and so we tackle our work week like, okay, what's the rock work we need to get done? And it's so satisfying when you tick it off the list and you've beaten it and then you can, waste an hour on Instagram if you need to and all that kind of stuff, but you know, you've done right by your day, but it's so hard to, especially at the beginning to know what those priorities are, because everything is urgent, everything is needed.

[00:14:32] Juliet Fallowfield: How did you work out where your strengths were and what you would then outsource or delegate?

[00:14:38] Hind Sebti: I think it's, I mean, At the beginning you do everything.

[00:14:40] Hind Sebti: As you know, and I think it's the biggest thing that I always tell people when you move from corporate world and to entrepreneurship, especially from big roles, I was like, yes, I had an office. I had a PA has so many teams doing things for me. And suddenly I'm working from my home and I have to do the boxes that I sent myself.

[00:14:57] Hind Sebti: And that's okay.

[00:14:58] Hind Sebti: So It's the best bit.

[00:14:58] Juliet Fallowfield: I love a beauty send [00:15:00] out.

[00:15:00] Hind Sebti: You ever tell yourself, I can't believe I'm doing this. Then this is not for you because the entrepreneur is at the end of the day the buck stops with you so you do what has to be done. You're like the ultimate sweeper,

[00:15:12] Hind Sebti: right? Oh, you cannot go to sleep and say oh somebody has to figure it out so at the beginning you do everything and I think by that doing everything For any I'm not saying it's easy This is I'm still working on this a lot is you figure it out the things that only you can do So I am the only one that can do this part of the job.

[00:15:31] Hind Sebti: I'm the only one that can do this podcast. I enjoy very much

[00:15:35] Hind Sebti: my job.

[00:15:35] Juliet Fallowfield: Thank you. I am the only 

[00:15:36] Hind Sebti: one who can actually judge kind of the direction of a brand and make a decision. I'm the only one who can do this, But I am not the only one who can go to every single shoot. I am not the only one that has to be involved in every single element of the product development I'm, not the one that needs to be in every retailer meeting, right?

[00:15:51] Hind Sebti: And and it's not easy because you have this tension always of controlling because if you do this business as well You're very controlling like I want to know every single thing but it's that self [00:16:00] discipline of I cannot be involved in every single thing. And the second bit is one of our values at Waldencast is ambition with humility, right? So, we want to be, do all of these things, but we know that the competencies,, that we don't have, if I am going to do for example, PR or communication, I am going to work with

[00:16:20] Hind Sebti: somebody like Becky. And then trust that she's going to do that. I'm not going to go on the detail over her. Right.

[00:16:26] Hind Sebti: And if I have somebody that I need to be in the detail, that is not the right person. Right. And you have to make these decisions fast, because I think the thing that you don't have, as you said earlier, as an entrepreneur is time. Time is everything. So you have to be more decisive on what is working, what is not working for you, be it processes, people, et cetera, because it's the only way to, to move forward.

[00:16:47] Juliet Fallowfield: Would you say, just bringing it back to brand quickly, would you say you've benefited from doing these multiple businesses and ventures at the same time and they fed each other,

[00:16:55] Juliet Fallowfield: [00:17:00] same 

[00:17:00] Juliet Fallowfield:  time?

[00:17:11] Hind Sebti: on because the more multiple priorities, the more chances for something to go wrong. You know,

[00:17:16] Hind Sebti: It's higher statistically, right? But I think I wouldn't have done it any other way because of the learnings. When we launched whind, we launched it in, for example, it was the first brand we launched in 

[00:17:25] Juliet Fallowfield: April 2021, it was just on the back of Covid.

[00:17:30] Hind Sebti: I just want to have this brand out because I want to see what people are thinking about it.

[00:17:34] Hind Sebti: And the thinking at the time was because because I want to almost do my vision was to do like a global concept test. So we're going to launch it only on e commerce and launch it everywhere. So we can see. Which country or region have more, there's more pull and I was interested because that was my how do you say my theoretical brand strategy kind of thing.

[00:17:52] Hind Sebti: I mean, I would be amazing to see how it does. What I learned that we learned in the process as we were launching whind is actually the logistic complications, the heavy lift [00:18:00] you have to do just on that.

[00:18:01] Hind Sebti: That when you are in a market, you have to also invest in the market for people to know your brand, and then you start stretching your money too

[00:18:07] Hind Sebti: thinly. So I was like, that was a great you know, on paper idea, and it gave us some insight that the Middle East, the US, the UK

[00:18:15] Hind Sebti: were strong markets for us, And, North Africa was strong markets for us, but it was hard. So, as we were thinking of, launching Glaze very early on, I said, we will wait to launch Glaze until I know more about whind.

[00:18:24] Hind Sebti: And the learnings on whind in terms of DTC I was like, okay, we're not going to launch globally. We're going to do UK and US first. And you know what? We might benefit from having retail quicker for awareness because it's, but it was, it was, it was more down the line from COVID where stores were more confident than things will open.

[00:18:41] Hind Sebti: So, and then for Coats as well, Coats was ready to launch at the same time as Glaze. I was like, hang on, I want to make the same mistake once, ideally, and not repeat it for every launch. So launching them all at the same time is like having three babies. You know, you phase it. So

[00:18:55] Hind Sebti: one takes care of the other.

[00:18:57] Hind Sebti: So I find having all the brands [00:19:00] with different brand positioning, business model, you know, masstige, prestige, mass distribution channel, consumer targets, benefits was a lot that for me as a person that wants to build the brand, like

[00:19:14] Hind Sebti: multi brand platform, it was immensely important. insightful. And I think a key to our success, because then the scale comes in the scale of learning or Coats, you start trying TikTok, right?

[00:19:25] Hind Sebti: whind is going to try Pinterest and whoever cracks it, then we can roll it out across the brands, right? So that's made it I think I see a lot of benefits on it, and also the benefits of not putting all your eggs in one basket in terms of success. Because beauty is an amazing industry that grows sustainably, etc.

[00:19:42] Hind Sebti: But you know, it has variants between now skincare is hot, tomorrow makeup is hot, colour, hair. So when you play multi category, you also

[00:19:50] Juliet Fallowfield: Diversify your risk.

[00:19:51] Hind Sebti: yeah, exactly. And I think we've always been, this approach works when you're thinking mid to long term, you know, thinking quick, Oh, I'm going to do this and exit in two years, right?[00:20:00] 

[00:20:00] Hind Sebti: Yeah. It's not going to work because in two years focusing on three brands, you're not going to get them. The It's almost like the, you know, like the like the the Nike shape

[00:20:06] Hind Sebti: is you do that investment in the strong foundations and you learn and you, and you tweak and you tweak and you tweak. So when you accelerate, you accelerate, and this is what we're seeing on the brands it was more craftsmanship and learnings.

[00:20:17] Hind Sebti: And then when they take off with the learnings and, it's a, it's a much easier, 

[00:20:21] Juliet Fallowfield: well, you've got so many data points to pull from and I definitely think like information is power, not power, but it's just any learning when you're starting a business that you can put back into your business and not make that same mistake again is key. And there's sometimes, there's a few times I've kicked myself and gone, I should have known better.

[00:20:36] Juliet Fallowfield: But every, every day is a school day and any conversation you have with anyone you learn from, like someone said to me the other day, the best piece of advice they were given is like, you never regret a conversation, make time for the conversations because you always learn. And that's obviously as a communications person, I'm thrilled to hear that, but it takes time as well, but

[00:20:55] Juliet Fallowfield: it's that I'm with you on that slow growth because you hold on to it for longer [00:21:00] and you're in it for the right reasons as well. But I love the fact you're across different categories. You've got this sort of halo view of the whole category and then individual brands and you're cross pollinating those learnings between them.

[00:21:13] Juliet Fallowfield: Are all your brand teams in under the one roof or remote? Is it a blend? How do you share that information between your brands? Okay. 

[00:21:20] Hind Sebti: brand people. So we believe in the power of a brand. If Beauty is not an industry of of leveraging scale on to cause of outputting everything in the same room and making them do the same things repeatedly.

[00:21:31] Hind Sebti: So we have brand leads across be it milk, Obagi. I mean, these have bigger brand.

[00:21:35] Hind Sebti: They have three brands. CEOs that take care of them independently, but we have brand lead on whind on glaze and coats. And from the beginning, what we have in common and across the and it's the vision across the Waldencast platform is when you are one indie brand, it's very difficult to get quickly the critical mass.

[00:21:52] Hind Sebti: To invest in key capabilities and key talents, right? If you are one brand, you're focusing on the products and the communication. [00:22:00] You're not in focusing on what, on how to have a super effective logistic organisation on e commerce dates,

[00:22:04] Juliet Fallowfield: HR. I'm 

[00:22:04] Hind Sebti: all of those things that are always, we found in our experience an afterthought that come sometimes a bit late. And then you have to undo things. So what are we able to do is we have a best in class capabilities when it comes to e commerce, data, insights, et cetera, that for the brands we create. So the brands we invest in, so the brands we acquire, it gives us a competitive edge in terms of, this is what we call the Waldencast platform in terms of

[00:22:28] Hind Sebti: sharing best practices, but also sharing tools, the way we are, as we have a team, we are three, I mean, we say, which would be between London and New York. So our team, our brands team, ventures team is based in London. We have milk and Obagi in the US, but we also have an international footprint. We have a teams on Obagi in Southeast Asia. We have our own our own organisation. So it's a little bit, it's, it's a bit global right

[00:22:47] Hind Sebti: now. So But we value a lot of the I have to say I love the flexibility that we can have to work from anywhere. Anywhere.

[00:22:51] Hind Sebti: Because the most important thing is that we are performance driven. So we need to get the job done. How? I not want to you know, track people's [00:23:00] time, but I think there's a huge benefit in the industry we're in to being together. 

[00:23:04] Juliet Fallowfield: Okay. One of our strengths we like 

[00:23:06] Hind Sebti: to talk about it at Waldencast, is we say scale and speed. And speed comes from

[00:23:13] Hind Sebti: making decisions fast, and making decisions fast comes from being together and looking at the problem from multiple, you know, touch points, a problem or opportunity. So we create spaces, be it in Long Beach, New York, or here in London, that kind of foster that collaboration. It's very important for us, like, Time like face to face in person meetings.

[00:23:33] Hind Sebti: But of course, with the flexibility to adapt to people's conditions.

[00:23:37] Juliet Fallowfield: Do you, I mean, I know for my business, service businesses, it's very different for a product like business, we've got this incredible blend between real estate and really rich debates and laying stuff out and physically looking and touching and with product, if we're working with product based brands, that is a very different thing to a Zoom call or an email or a LinkedIn DM and I think finding that blend and that sort of ratio between how much face time you need to how [00:24:00] much time away from each other that you need as well, especially with client work as well, seeing clients face to face versus seeing clients on Zoom, but I think we're in a privileged position to be able to do that because not every business can, like we work with a lot of jewellery makers and they have to be at a bench under security with a safe with diamonds in it.

[00:24:16] Juliet Fallowfield: You can't really do that at home that 

[00:24:18] Juliet Fallowfield: often. So it's, it's, it's a hard one. I am fascinated to see how the world of work will change and has changed. 

[00:24:24] Juliet Fallowfield: I think,

[00:24:24] Hind Sebti:  We tend to put the The how do you say the horse before the carriage or

[00:24:27] Hind Sebti: vice versa? Because at the end of the day people are talking or is it three days a week two days a week 15 days a week It depends on your business because I think it starts with what do we need to do to be successful and not in a dogma, right? What

[00:24:40] Hind Sebti: are is required to be successful? I can tell you firsthand when we were developing products in COVID, we made so many mistakes because I mean, we've never spent as much money on couriering things. You know, I courier this to you, you check this in isolation between two things, et cetera.

[00:24:55] Hind Sebti: Well, actually, well, then we make the mistake. The pump doesn't work because of the viscosity, but this [00:25:00] packaging is this and

[00:25:00] Hind Sebti: that, because we are in beauty in an industry of details and we're in industry of selling products.

[00:25:08] Hind Sebti: So we need to be able and

[00:25:08] Hind Sebti: now and look at them, Not only look at them in our office, but look at them in retail.

[00:25:11] Hind Sebti: We need to look at other people's product. We need to look how it looks on the shelf. We need to look at that if I do my packaging and I'm so happy with what I've written here. And once it's on the shelf, it's going to sit behind the label. It's going to hide it well good luck to me. You know what I mean? So I realized, you know,

[00:25:26] Juliet Fallowfield: Context is king.

[00:25:27] Hind Sebti: Oh my God, I've been doing this for 20 years. And I did newbie mistakes during COVID because I just lacked that extra context. So it starts with what is required to be successful in

[00:25:37] Hind Sebti: your business, in your brand, and therefore what is the organisation that needs to, to be there? The type of offices, the type of meetings, the types, et cetera.

[00:25:44] Hind Sebti: and it's not one size fits all.

[00:25:46] Hind Sebti: And then talent or people can decide which type of business and organisation they need to be part of. Not the other way around

[00:25:53] Hind Sebti: because it's not very, yeah.

[00:25:53] Juliet Fallowfield: and I was reading this Raconteur article to say that in five years, most of the big, big companies in the UK will demand five days a week back in the office and [00:26:00] it's typically middle aged white men who are sitting there with a nanny and an au pair who don't need to get home for school pickups, making these decisions and it's impacting people, but I see it on the flip side, it's like, hang on guys.

[00:26:11] Juliet Fallowfield: For 20 years, I commuted for 48 weeks of the year, five days a week. And I was in before my boss and I left after my boss. So if you've even got one day at home, we've made some progress. So let's just be aware of this. Some people in finance are like, this is our company culture. If you don't like it, you don't have to work here.

[00:26:27] Juliet Fallowfield: So it's, it's a fascinating debate. However, I feel like we've gone off topic slightly around brands.

[00:26:33] Hind Sebti: Yeah, but I think it's, I think for me, it links to kind of the the concept of entrepreneurship. If I kind of

[00:26:36] Juliet Fallowfield: Yes. 

[00:26:36] Hind Sebti: to that 

[00:26:36] Juliet Fallowfield: And company cultures.

[00:26:37] Hind Sebti: Company culture, right? Is you set it up. This is part of what you're creating. You're just not joining. And there's no, I always say as an entrepreneur, you're building the plane when you fly in it, right?

[00:26:46] Hind Sebti: You have a vision. We know where you're going, but you have to be agile to adapt. You know, I always say what we know to be successful at least in our company is you need to believe in the dream. We're going to be, we're going to, we're building the next big beauty [00:27:00] company, global best in class, worldwide, world beauty and wellness, et cetera. You need to understand that the most important asset we have is the people, because not

[00:27:07] Hind Sebti: the two of us that build it, that we understand, but you also need to be flexible that we don't know exactly how we're going to get there because we're learning. We have a plan. But we also need to adapt if that plan is not, you know, everything we have done, we didn't know it before.

[00:27:21] Hind Sebti: We had the big, As long as you have the big North star and everything you do is taking you there. Somebody goes, Oh, I have an amazing business opportunity in pet care. We're like, Oh my God, this is so amazing. Hang on. We do beauty and wellness, regardless how amazing, regardless, it's a great founder. It's

[00:27:36] Hind Sebti: a lot of money.

[00:27:36] Hind Sebti: It's easy. We can do it in our sleep. No. It's This is what we're doing. So the distract, you know, and I think you have to be agile and figuring out and figuring out is also part of the company culture. So I'm like, if you are somebody who wants to come to a job and say, here's your job description, and it's exactly what you're going to do, then I'm sorry, it's not going to

[00:27:52] Hind Sebti: work. And I think we developed it to interview. So now I say it in interviews. I was like, listen, it's not for everyone, entrepreneurship, [00:28:00] but also Waldencast. And I'm going to tell you exactly my

[00:28:03] Hind Sebti: objective is not to seduce you at all costs and then you're unhappy. It's for you to know what you're working in because for some people they love it and for some people

[00:28:10] Hind Sebti: they hate it and that's completely fine

[00:28:12] Juliet Fallowfield: Oh, to manage people's expectations is everything and I, it's game changing when you get the right talent in your business and the best and the worst part of the job is the people, but what I've learned from my team, I have two exceptional colleagues who every day teach me something and that's why I love it because we have these, dynamic conversations together and they challenged me and they questioned me from the beginning.

[00:28:34] Juliet Fallowfield: I was like, I've had this very fortunate career in luxury brands. I can cherry pick the best bits from them and give this to them of what I've learned, like goal documents, progression, training, open office. Work remotely, whatever it is. And I keep surveying them. It's because we've got B Corp six months ago.

[00:28:50] Juliet Fallowfield: It's like feedback. 

[00:28:51] Juliet Fallowfield: feedback, feedback. Thank you. It's like, tell me, talk to me and tell me when you want to find another job. And if I can't promote you or give you the opportunity, I will help [00:29:00] you find it somewhere else. They're like, what? It's like, well, A, I got a longer lead time to replace you, but B, I want you to succeed.

[00:29:06] Juliet Fallowfield: And I feel like that open dialogue has really helped me have security and trust them. They trust me and working remotely, especially trust is fundamental. If you don't have that, you've got nothing, but the people make or break being an entrepreneur, yeah.

[00:29:22] Hind Sebti: I think one of the other kind of to go with that one of the other when you talked about the time, you know how to do the priorities on the time. I think there's also a thing that people when people talk about work smarts, not hard You I think it's a big, sometimes it's a bit of a myth and misleading because I look at my 25 years and I'm like, I worked smart and hard,

[00:29:37] Hind Sebti: you know, when I think we sometimes don't help people by saying, Oh, just work smart.

[00:29:42] Hind Sebti: What does that

[00:29:43] Hind Sebti: mean? For most people, you need both depending what you want to achieve. Right? And I find it that it's not about working smart and so is how you create your own you own balance. I work. Yes, I can say I work. I have not stopped 24/7 da da da. But I know what I need for my balance. And my [00:30:00] balance is not to be at my home at 5pm or to do this or to have a Sunday. It's something else. And I always encourage people as part of our culture to find what this is for them. You only can define what this is as a company culture. We say you have to find it, but I'm not going to say nine to five, have a lunch break. You know, it's too,

[00:30:18] Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. 

[00:30:18] Hind Sebti: know, unless you know, yeah, Prescriptive. I was like, it looks, I don't care about a lunch break, but maybe somebody else does. And I think is we have to encourage people, especially in more entrepreneurial startup world, where you have to write the rules. If you join a startup or you want to start a business, you are writing all the rules, including this ones.

[00:30:34] Juliet Fallowfield: Have you written your own job description? Ssss I should say. Okay.

[00:30:39] Hind Sebti: My job description? No! There's no job description, 

[00:30:43] Juliet Fallowfield: No, 

[00:30:43] Juliet Fallowfield: It's been on my to do list since I started and I was like, there's no point. It's A, going to take me days and B, it's going to change weekly. So what's the point? But I feel cause you're employing people like here's a job description or a job outline.

[00:30:54] Juliet Fallowfield: It will change and we want it to change. We want to bring you in and then see where you land and what [00:31:00] excites you. And then we can sculpt more work in that direction. Because I think if someone's happy doing what they're doing, they'll do more of it and they'll do it better. One day want to write my own job description to be like, is this actually realistic? Because I think there are so many hats that you wear and it sounds like you've absolutely nailed it of like, I know my strengths.

[00:31:15] Juliet Fallowfield: I know how I tick. I know what I need to do. That's going to shift the business and everything else other people can do. That's such good advice for the, especially when you're building these brands, because brand, product building is a lot of work and you need a lot of stuff and you need a lot of things but finding that, that sweet spot, I think you've clearly done it really quickly, which is so impressive.

[00:31:37] Hind Sebti: I don't want, I mean, I don't want it to miss, to look like I figured it out. It's the theory that I'm trying to hold myself accountable to, you

[00:31:44] Hind Sebti: know, 

[00:31:44] Hind Sebti: I am working on it, working on it. It's a work in progress.

[00:31:45] Juliet Fallowfield: well, I think just being aware is part of the problem. If you're completely ignorant to something, and then it is what someone said to me, it's the shark that bites. It's like, you can't see that bites you. And it's almost when I was living in Australia and I never really wanted to get in the ocean that much.

[00:31:56] Juliet Fallowfield: It was like, oh, God. And then an Aussie mate, it's like, someone further out [00:32:00] than you. And I was like, how can I apply this to business? But I'm yet to do that. But no, it's I think in the juggle, the juggle is real and a lot of people are like, wow, you have endless holiday and you can travel as much as you like.

[00:32:11] Juliet Fallowfield: And it's like, yes, I'm a service based business. I can travel as much as I like, but I'm always on and I'm always working and that I keep a plant alive and I managed to take the recycling out. I don't have kids and I don't have a family, so I, I can give it my all, but that's not healthy. So watching you do multiple brands as well as overseeing so many other things, it's so impressive.

[00:32:32] Juliet Fallowfield: And I, I, was going to ask, does it all come down to the right people? Do you have one good piece of advice when it comes to recruiting the right talent? 

[00:32:40] Hind Sebti: I say beauty is my work, my life, my hobby. When I'm not working, I'm down at Harrods, Space NK, speaking to BAs.

[00:32:47] Hind Sebti: I don't know anything else

[00:32:48] Juliet Fallowfield: You're a beauty, junkie like the rest of us, yeah.

[00:32:52] Hind Sebti: Like, I don't know, like if I told me to stop, I don't know what I would do because I genuinely really

[00:32:56] Hind Sebti: love it so much. Second as a person, I [00:33:00] thrive on the freedom to build. So the challenges, of course, you have them and you're like, Oh my God, this is tough. You go, Oh, okay.

[00:33:07] Hind Sebti: So we're building, you know, one step at a time. And where I was also personally, I think what helps me beyond my prioritisation is it doesn't come. I think as a one individual is really hard to have all these beautiful principles and hold yourself accountable. What I

[00:33:20] Hind Sebti: have is a co founder. That is absolutely amazing.

[00:33:24] Hind Sebti: And we are complimentary where we need to be complimentary and similar, we need to be similar. So having somebody to share the burden with is huge. Number one advice I give to entrepreneurs is if you find somebody that you can be a co founder with. It's amazing. It's also very tricky because it's a

[00:33:42] Hind Sebti: very tough balance to find somebody that you can, you know, work with 24/7, et cetera.

[00:33:47] Hind Sebti: So I think I was, both of us were very lucky because we rely on each other to be like the, how do you say the checks and balances? You cannot do it for yourself. You have somebody that sees everything you're doing and say, you know what? Focus maybe this on that. I will [00:34:00] focus on this. So I think it's immensely, it's immensely helpful when it comes to When it comes to advice in terms of starting, I think the most important question is why are you doing this?

[00:34:10] Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. And what does success look like to you? 

[00:34:12] Hind Sebti: And what does success look like? you? know, It's interesting when I started this whole venture thing five years ago we're speaking to companies in the US, you know, and you will meet founders ,it would say I will create this brand and what is your big vision? They're like, I want to be a billion dollar brand Fantastic.

[00:34:28] Hind Sebti: You want to be a billion dollar brand. Everybody wanted to be like a glossier at the

[00:34:30] Hind Sebti: time, right? It's a success model, which is fine. But then people are coming to venture capital and asking for money. Makes sense. When we went more into Europe, we would meet businesses, beautiful brands. And we're like, so what's the, what's the future? Like build a $5 million business. Wonderful. Because with a $5 million business, you can have a very nice life. And you can have a very nice life with having a billion dollar business, but it is not the same life. So you have to explain this choice means you will remain in control of your [00:35:00] business. It's going to be a family business.

[00:35:01] Hind Sebti: You make a hundred percent of the decisions, but you most likely going to remain small. You want to be big and you want to take big investments. Well, you have other people who will have opinions. You

[00:35:11] Hind Sebti: will be held accountable to other people. You know, when you take people's money, it's a difference. it's a different game.

[00:35:15] Hind Sebti: I think people are not often aware of that in my experience. So what does success look like? What kind of business do we want to build for which purpose? And how do you want the journey to look like, right? Do you want to be left by alone? Do you want a team? You know, it's very important because it's all about setting up expectation.

[00:35:33] Hind Sebti: And the biggest why is when things get tough. You never question it. You know for me, and of course we had amazing time, but really tough times, that's the reality of entrepreneurship and at no point, regardless how tough it is, you question why you're doing it. You're just doing it, you

[00:35:49] Hind Sebti: know, you're in it.

[00:35:50] Hind Sebti: And so you're more in problem solving, not, Oh, I wish I did not. So 2019, no, this is gone. So then it's all about, I think sometimes people, that's why I said earlier, we, I think we glamorise entrepreneurship too much. It is one of many career [00:36:00] opportunities. It's great to have a corporate career. It's great to work in small. All of them are great as long as you know what you want

[00:36:06] Hind Sebti: because each one of 

[00:36:07] Hind Sebti: them has a positive and also a trade off and you need to pick the one that works for you. For me, dedicating everything to Waldencast is great. I am all in. I'm an all in person. I don't know how to do things half baked. Even when I was working at other people's companies, I was all in anyway. So 

[00:36:24] Juliet Fallowfield: Do you look back now? I remember working till midnight at Burberry for six months straight and weekends. I look back going, why did I not stockpile those hours for when I need them now? I worked. So hard for other people. And I now kicking myself being like, was I an idiot or was I just learning and happy?

[00:36:39] Juliet Fallowfield: But I wanted to do it at the time.

[00:36:41] Hind Sebti: same. I never

[00:36:42] Hind Sebti: questioned this and I think that's part of the, you know, the

[00:36:46] Hind Sebti: joy.

[00:36:47] Juliet Fallowfield: So something that we do with our guests is the previous guest from the previous episode had a question for you and it was an interview with the founder of, one of the co founders of RIXO, Henrietta, who wanted to [00:37:00] know what meeting was the most instrumental when it came to your business?

[00:37:04] Juliet Fallowfield: Because she thought there's always those conversations that you have with people that are turnkey moments or light bulb moments and they stick with you. Which one of those for you is a real stake in the ground?

[00:37:16] Hind Sebti: That's a very, very good question.

[00:37:18] Juliet Fallowfield: all means take some time to think about it because it's quite a big question.

[00:37:22] Hind Sebti: I mean, there were so many, but I think if I go back to the story, I said at the beginning, my not light bulb moments, but the first time I said out loud, I want to do my own business. And as a person, I don't. my personality is I do not ask people, you know, I'm very I like to take my decisions myself. I'm not, I don't ask for advice because I think it's so personal.

[00:37:45] Hind Sebti: People are not you and they will always give you maybe a good advice, but anchored maybe in a personal experience. So when it's really big, I try to get to my decision and then validate it. Right. So, so I've been thinking about this and it was really hard because I'm like, Oh my [00:38:00] God, I am going to do something.

[00:38:02] Hind Sebti: I have always been. By the book student, you know, doing playing by the rule, having teams, cetera. I was like, I'm going to go and end up alone in my kitchen. For me, that was the image that was scary I don't know why it goes alone in the kitchen. And, and I think the moment when I spoke to Michel and it came from a conversation, which is, Oh, what do you want your next big role to be at L'Oreal?

[00:38:18] Hind Sebti: To be actually. I want

[00:38:18] Hind Sebti: to be doing something by myself. I want to create my own thing 

[00:38:23] Hind Sebti: and half expecting that somebody's gonna go, Oh, this is so ridiculous, which a lot of people, I mean, most people have said that later, 

[00:38:31] Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. 

[00:38:31] Hind Sebti: but at the time and have the person that I respect the most. You know, tell me actually, this is not even saying, okay, but saying this is an excellent thing was the, all I'm not one for validation, but it's the best validation I could have had.

[00:38:45] Hind Sebti: So that filled me with a sense of belief and that was even beyond what I had. And I think And that's why I think the partnership we had as well was amazing because it's that's

[00:38:53] Hind Sebti: that belief and and I think at the end of the day and it's kind of why this is the meeting that the the events that I that I picked versus many investor [00:39:00] meetings and lots of things like that it is that moment where as an entrepreneur, when people told me, oh, it's so risky to leave corporate life and do this.

[00:39:09] Hind Sebti: And I was like, where's the risk, right? because at the end of the day, I am betting on myself as an entrepreneur. Is you betting? You are your product, right? Yes, of course. you

[00:39:18] Hind Sebti: create brand and you create things, but they create because of what you have inside of you? So I am betting for me, Waldencast was risk free almost, because I was betting on myself and on Michel, who is the other person that I think is the best in the world. So I'm like, no. And also like everything you learn makes you a stronger, better business person. So I didn't see where the risk was, but it was the most common thing that people told me afterwards and the risk and things like, where is the risk?

[00:39:44] Hind Sebti: Which is 

[00:39:44] Juliet Fallowfield: I'm so with you. I, for the first year, it was my closest and nearest dearest friends that kept sending me jobs on LinkedIn.

[00:39:50] Juliet Fallowfield: I'm like, guys, I've got a job. I made a job up for myself. I'm employed just by a company I started. I took great offense. I was like, do you not think I can do this? Cause I'm doing this, it's happening. [00:40:00] And I wasn't, I had no idea where my business was going to go. And I obviously has shifted and changed and evolved, but I, I was giving it my best shot.

[00:40:07] Juliet Fallowfield: And I've never thought about it that way. I thought I diversified my risk by having multiple clients, not one salary. I was made redundant, lost my entire income. And now with a few clients, it's, the risk is, spread. But the fact that they kept sending me jobs of like, well, sure, you, you want to go back in-house.

[00:40:25] Juliet Fallowfield: You want to do work for someone else. And you get that taste of freedom. You're like, hell no, this is it. And actually that you've, this is my light bulb moment right now of like, I'm betting on myself, I know how hard I can work. I know how much I can learn. I know also the minimum I need to live and survive.

[00:40:43] Juliet Fallowfield: Someone said at the beginning, work out your burn rate of like, how much money do you need to live off a month? Bare minimum to keep a roof above your head. And then that will keep you sleeping at night because you know, the bare minimum is actually a lot less than you thought it was. So things like that, but yeah, betting on yourself.

[00:40:59] Juliet Fallowfield: I [00:41:00] love that. That's fantastic. And what would your question be for the next guest?

[00:41:04] Hind Sebti: Who is the next guest? Oh,

[00:41:04] Juliet Fallowfield: I can, I've started telling people actually before I never did, but let me just look them up and the schedule, the schedule might shift. That's the only problem. But I 

[00:41:04] Juliet Fallowfield: think, well, I think it's going to be Samantha Cameron

[00:41:04] Hind Sebti: oh,

[00:41:04] Juliet Fallowfield: director for Ceffin, but it might not, the date might move. So maybe don't tailor it just to her.

[00:41:04] Hind Sebti: okay. No, no, it's just some inspiration. So I think, I mean, the question that is from a kind of, if I, if I position it from like a startup point of view and it's, it's the why, what keeps, what is the big goal, what keeps you going right for some people it's money for some people is feeling a dream for some people.

[00:41:16] Hind Sebti: For me. I'm going to answer my own question

[00:41:19] Juliet Fallowfield: No, no, 

[00:41:19] Juliet Fallowfield: me. 

[00:41:19] Hind Sebti: I'd love to 

[00:41:20] Juliet Fallowfield: know your answer. 

[00:41:21] Hind Sebti: Of the most, you know, We talk about successes and products and things, of course, we care about that. But when I receive emails from prospective you know, people who want to join us, when I, especially young women, I have a big passion for, you know,

[00:41:31] Hind Sebti: young women and leadership.

[00:41:32] Hind Sebti: When they look at people who join us, people that approach me to say, I listen to your podcast and it's, and I want to do this, or I, I like to see, a different kind of model in this industry or in leadership. It doesn't have to be tough. It can be can be soft and you can be kind and you can be yourself and you can still be successful in your own on your own terms.

[00:41:48] Hind Sebti: I think creating Waldencast for me is creating that platform to allow us to do this on a bigger scale for both consumers and various stakeholders. And nothing makes me happier. I received an email yesterday, actually [00:42:00] from a young Moroccan actually student and I read it. I'm like, this is what I, this is really what gets me here.

[00:42:06] Hind Sebti: And I'm like, Okay. whatever I'm doing, I'm doing something good because you inspire or

[00:42:10] Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, it's so much bigger than the bottom line. Totally. That's just a means to an end. Oh, congratulations. It's so impressive and really exciting. Beauty, as you said, needed this shake up and also you're leading, leading the way for the behemoths to look back and go, Oh, we better get our ducks in a row.

[00:42:25] Juliet Fallowfield: Cause we've both come from good schools of big brands, but you know, they need a bit of a shake up now and again. So thank you so much and thank you for your time. It's been wonderful chatting. 

[00:42:36] Juliet Fallowfield: I'm 

[00:42:36] Hind Sebti: thank you Juliet. I really enjoyed it.

[00:42:38] Juliet Fallowfield: No, me too. I'm just going to click stop quickly because 

[00:42:38] Juliet Fallowfield: I really hope you've enjoyed this conversation, you can find a recap of all the advice so kindly shared by guests in the show notes, along with our contact details, we'd love it.

[00:42:46] Juliet Fallowfield: If you could rate and review or share this podcast, because it really does help other people discover it. To incentivise this a little, I would very happily offer you one of our PR guides on how to share editorial coverage legally. Just DM us or send us an [00:43:00] email, hello@fallowfieldmason.com with review in the title and we'll share it on.

[00:43:05]