Lucy Goff | LYMA: How to find clients & generate loyalty

As any founder needs to conquer their fear of sales I wanted to interview a founder who rapidly grew a new sector. 

After overcoming chronic illness, Founder of LYMA, Lucy Goff, set out to redefine the wellness landscape and share her learnings. Since launching in 2017, LYMA has been at the forefront of science-driven wellness & health optimisation securing listings with Harrods & Harvey Nichols with its truly transformational & effective supplements. 

Keep listening to hear Lucy’s advice on acquiring & retaining clients & what to consider when developing a loyalty programme. 

Lucy’s advice:

• If you want to stand out, look different
• Surprise people
• Remember everything is aiming towards a sale
• Plan your PR stories in advance of the launch; that way you reduce any risk
• The product will stand on its own; but the brand storytelling is what will set you apart
• Think about how your brand will resonate with customers and stand out in the marketplace
• Listen to your customers and engage with them; their feedback will be crucial 
• Customers won’t always want what you want to give them
• Any loyalty scheme should be designed around the product you are selling
• A loyalty scheme should also repay the length of time your customers have stayed with you
• On a personal level, eliminate fear and don’t listen to your subconscious!

FF&M enables you to own your own PR & produces podcasts.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

FF&M recommends: 

• LastPass the password-keeping site that syncs between devices.
• Google Workspace is brilliant for small businesses
• Buzzsprout podcast 'how to' & hosting directory
• Canva has proved invaluable for creating all the social media assets and audio bites.

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod.  Link &  Licence

Transcript

[00:00:00] As any founder needs to conquer their fear of sales, I wanted to interview someone who'd rapidly grown in a new sector. After overcoming chronic illness, founder of LYMA, Lucy Goff, set out to redefine the wellness landscape and share her learnings. Since launching in 2018, LYMA has been at the forefront of science driven wellness and health optimization, securing listings in Harrods, Harvey Nichols, 

with truly transformational and effective supplements. Keep listening to hear Lucy's advice on how PR can actually influence sales and how crucial it is to tie up your entire sales strategy from the get go.

When you started LYMA, it wasn't that long ago and you've grown such an incredible business so quickly, but I'd be wonderful if you could just give a bit of introduction as to what LYMA is. So I started LYMA as a supplement brand. I guess like after I had my daughter in 2012, I was really ill, I caught septicemia. And, I was in hospital for weeks, in intensive care while, they've tried to save [00:01:00] me. And luckily they did, but it just came at a cost and my body was just completely finished.

I couldn't even pick my baby up or anything. it was just horrific. And I was like eating amazingly well, I was doing everything that I could for a healthy lifestyle. But I just couldn't function. And it was really only when I was in a clinic in Geneva, they were looking at my bloods and, I bumped into a longevity professor who introduced me to the hidden category of

pharmaceutical grade supplement ingredients and like literally within four weeks of taking them, like I just felt myself again. I was back at work. I like totally turned my life around. And so that was the premise for launching LYMA was as a life changing supplement brand, but it was, I guess my background in luxury PR, where I literally just thought I'm going to throw everything at the kitchen.

I'm going to throw [00:02:00] everything at this product. I'm going to make it the most effective supplement in the world. I'm going to make it look the best supplement in the world. I'm going to create the most incredible brand around it. I'm going to have the world's best scientists working for it.

 I couldn't have thrown anything more at it, cause I was just so acutely aware of the fact that I was entering as in a saturated market and how was I going to cut through? And I think it was only because I did throw everything at it that, I didn't realise how powerful that was,until kind of after I launched and like within two weeks we'd sold out. 

My goodness,

because that's it, you were saying you launched in 2017

 18. So it's quite a saturated market. What do you think was the biggest thing that you did that set you apart and got you that cut through? 

I remember once I went to this talk at Selfridges, and I actually can't remember who it was [00:03:00] for, but I remember being at that talk. And whoever it was talking had said, look, there are a million and one different fitness brands. But the fact is, if you were to put 10 pictures of 10 different fitness brands, this one would stick out.

Because the others would all look generic, like Virgin Active or David Lloyd or, Third space or something like that. They all look generic fitness brands. So whether that's in a post gym or a hall, there's a woman on a mat doing whatever, and I think that, it stuck out to me that 

 you've always got to look different. If you want to stick out fundamentally, you just got to look different because when somebody is scrolling down Facebook or scrolling down Instagram or for whatever they're searching for that you happen to fall into, it's the fact that your brain is going to be surprised.

When you're scrolling down that will stick in your mind. So it's how can I make it [00:04:00] surprising? We were the first people to put the supplement in an incredible hand hammered copper vessel, when like supplements were just in a glass or a plastic bottle in the cupboard.

And it was likewanting a point of differentiation to do something like that. Because as I say, yes, the supplement is the most effective supplement in the industry, but

people know that.

And I think that's what's so interesting and a lot of people who start businesses have this belief that what they're doing is new and different and innovative and they have to believe it more than anybody else. But you're right until you can get that horse to water, you need to lead the horse to water. And for you, sales must be an integral part of your founder role. What percentage of your day do you think it is taken up by? Everything. Because everything is ultimately going

up for sale. It's the only reason you exist. So otherwise you are a charity, Like fundamentally. Every aspect of, everything that we do [00:05:00] is gearing up for a sale. 

 And not enough founders accept this. I think a lot of people were like, Oh, I just want to be a creative. It's but if you don't have cashflow, you don't have a business.

And it's nothing, there's nothing shameful in that. And this is where I love, I know that you got B Corp certified as well, but when we got it, it was being able to say we put people and planet above profit, but we have to be a profiting company 

 That's a given. You should do that. So it's should you be a kind person? Should you not steal from a shop? Do you know what I mean? I guess these are just like givens, but if you're in business, you're in business.

You need sales. 

And for you looking at that saturated market, how did you find clients? What was your sort of initial approach?

Initial approach was through PR, which was my background. I always knew if the worst came to the worst and even if it took 10 years to sell through the initial stock, I always remember sitting at my kitchen table and doing,a spreadsheet on if I placed, however many PR stories would it take to sell through the stock?

And I [00:06:00] thought that's how I'm going to de risk everything that I've put my life on the line for.

It's actually, Hind Sebti from whind said the same thing. She said, there is no risk. I know how hard I work. I'm betting on myself. 

 It was actually,I knew that it was not a risk if I could place so many PR stories from it. And that's the other reason why I threw so much at it. Cause I thought, okay, there's one PR story in the brand. There's another PR story in the fact the ingredients are different.

There's another PR story in the celebrities that are taking it. So it's looking at all those givens and I'd actually placed all the PR stories before I'd even launched the company. So that was how I totally de risked it. Cause I did remortgage my house for LYMA. So I couldn't risk any aspect of it.

I couldn't bet on myself. 

You're saying that you knew if you could get that editorial, your business would fly.

 I knew that I could sell through the stock that I had invested in the [00:07:00] first place. I could just get, all I was bothered about was getting my money back.

The traction,

the initial traction 

The initial investment that I had to get back.

A lot of founders I've interviewed, 

 that I've had these incredible conversations with people. But I think a lot of people have talked about storytelling, PR, communications, as a not a nice to have, it's essential, but you're the first person that has been so crystal clear on PR equals success. This is not a risk. This is

something that's going to bring back to the business.

If you had $1 to spend, would you put it into, marketing or PR? It's just a given you put it into PR because PR is an authentic voice. A 

journalist has had to believe in it. In order to write it, it's not like placing an ad is not like buying an advertorial. And if a journalist has believed in it enough to write a story, 

 that then translates into the consumer world.

I love that you're [00:08:00] saying this because this is what I say every day because we teach founders how to do their own PR because we believe the founder is the best person to do their own PR or it in the business. And I love that you're saying this because you are your own best storyteller.

You'll know how to articulate your business better than anybody else. I think hopefully by the time this comes out, I've just done a TEDx talk on the topic of why you are your own best storyteller, because even if you outsource it to a PR professional like me, you will still know your story better than I will. And I always had the luxury position of being in house at Chanel and Givenchy and Shangri La and De Beers, these wonderful brands that kept the storytelling really close. But it's so interesting now when you look at companies launch, they're like, we're brand storytellers. It's it's PR, call it what it is.

It's

PR. It's public relations. You don't need to gloss it up with brand marketing or this, that, and the other. It's telling a really good story. So for you, what was the best angle that you found within your business?

I think it's different. I think you split it out into the brand and then you split it out into the product. Each of the products that we've [00:09:00] launched, the LYMA supplement, the LYMA laser, the LYMA supplement six years later is still the only fully patented peer reviewed formulation in existence where all the ingredients are dosed effectively.

So to still to this day that stands on its own. The LYMA laser, is still, this little LYMA laser. And this bigger LYMA laser Pro, that is the most biologically effective, zero damage, cosmetic laser technology in existence. So it's the only laser technology out there that actually works within your cells to make them younger instead of

other laser technologies, whether that's non fracture laser technology or fracture laser technology or ablative laser tech, whatever that is, that's damaging your skin or your cells which you would then hope to create [00:10:00] collagen from. The collagen that you create through that process is not as,lucrative as the collagen that you create when your cell has actually been stimulated to make it on its own.

So the products on their own, they speak for themselves through the product, but actually the brand is a different entity. And I think that's what I've learned along the way is how to separate the brand storytelling through, the product and actually your company.

What does your company stand for? What good do you want to do? What's your CSR stance? What's your charitable stance? How does that resonate for this demographic of customer? What does that mean for the American woman?

What does that mean for a woman in, Hong Kong? or elsewhere? So there's different strands and I think [00:11:00] the biggest thing that I've learned is, don't ever say what you want to say. Say what the customer what wants to hear from you. So it's not you shouting at somebody, it's actually you speaking to somebody.

And when you speak to somebody, they can start to form an emotional, connection with you. 

That's where the magic happens.

It was so interesting, I interviewed, for the episode before Thea from Nails INC. And she said exactly the same thing of I need to know my customer and what problem they have that I can solve for them and explain why I'm solving that problem that then happens to be back up into the business.

But, I find sales is so related to PR. Not only are they intrinsically linked, but how you pitch a story, how you pitch to a customer, you're not shouting, we need to be on Vogue. It's, Why does the Vogue reader want to read about you on Vogue? What's in it for them?

But I think it's also, it's like, what does your brand stand for? what does your [00:12:00] brand stand for outside of the products? And it's LYMA, we stand for empowerment. We stand for giving people the power to change, the power to change the way they feel, the power to change the way they look, the power to believe in themselves, it's like the, everybody has,the power to begin again.

I guess is infinite because we wake up every day and it's a new opportunity. So by the very virtue of the cycle of life, we evolve in that way. And I think for a brand to evolve with the same heartbeat and the same pace as life. It's actuallywhere people, feel comfortable with that brand.

They feel as though it's a brand that they can take with them. And yes, it's got to be desirable and yes, it's got to be interesting and yes, it's got to be brave and all of these other things. But I think if you cut the brand through the center. what does that stand for and how does that sit with the consumer?

If you [00:13:00] cut the consumer through the center and how does that kind of interact between, how does that interaction play between each other?

And when you're new to market and you're trying to reach those new clients that may not have heard about you, obviously you need of all your brand touch points to be consistent, beautiful, engaging, thumb stopping, but to have that ethos sitting behind the business as well is so important. Going back to the pitching to editors at the very beginning, you had your story mapping and you had all your angles and you, very tactically went, okay, we can go to this magazine with this angle. For you, presumably, placing a story meant you could scale the brand awareness at pace because a magazine would be reaching hundreds of thousands of people at any given time. When you seeded the stories, then you launched and then the coverage came out after launch?

No, I launched the business on the day that I knew the Daily Mail was going to break the story. I did gear the whole thing around PR. Yeah.

Amazing, you are like the dream PR [00:14:00] client because often we're like, can we just actually have a lead time. 

 I didn't press the website live until it went until I knew, I wait, I remember waited till, I think, I dunno when it went live, maybe it was like 11 o'clock at night or something like that for the day before. and that was when I set the company. I 

were you already looking at your Google Analytics, looking at the tracking of what was driving customers to the site?

I started with a digital agency. It was a very small digital agency because I didn't have any money to pay for anybody bigger. And we'd worked out what we thought the cost per acquisition would be for a product like this. and it was very basic. 

There was like a few keywords that I put in. It was really not my thing. The website that we launched with, it was like quite a basic five page website that, served its purpose because, I, I did it all myself, I didn't have a big team or anything like that.

And it was only after we [00:15:00] launched that we got the first set of money and the first and only set of money. We've only had one, one bit of money, that we did it, got a proper agency and did it all properly.

Amazing. And did you say you sold through in two weeks?

We sold through in two weeks. We're only shipping to the UK, but because of the PR, we got a demand from all of these different countries. So I remember this was in the February and in the May, We, relaunched with,a global proposition where we're shipping at that point to 27 countries.

My goodness. 

I didn't even have global fulfillment or anything. It was just me at home, like

There's nothing like a lovely problem to have. 

I think it looked a lot bigger than it was when we first started because the product was just, so incredible,it was just me at home doing it all on my own.

You've got to start somewhere and I

think a lot of people hold themselves back and many guests have said, done is better than perfect. You've just got to get going because you learn very quickly when [00:16:00] things are out in the universe and people are looking. You've got to put your head above the parapets. For you, it sounds like a great problem to have is that you put a proper PR strategy behind it because you understood how it was going to work. You've got the traction, you've got the cash flow back into the business that then you could grow and reinvest and expand. Now, given that you've got this traction with clients, what would you say the cost of acquiring a client versus retaining a client is and are you doing both at the same time? 

You have to put them together because for me, I look at it as one entity. So if I'm acquiring a customer, I've got to know how long they're going to stay in the business to know how much it's worth acquiring a customer for. So what's the lifetime value of that customer?

And I'll put all of that in and then work on that basis.

Yeah, because I think a lot of people like to distract themselves with their whole busy fool as a founder, that you want to ignore the big problem and the bear that's coming at you because you're busying yourself over here with packaging and a rebrand. For you, are you constantly looking at the numbers to [00:17:00] learn about the business? 

We're a very different business now to the one man band that we launched with, now we're a big global business. We employ lots of people. We've got an incredible head office, like we're a big global business. The LYMA laser is the first ever FDA cleared, clinic grade laser for at home use, we're FDA audited, we're audited in the UK. 

It's a proper big company now. Obviously we've got a brilliant retention department. We've got a brilliant, digital marketing department, got brilliant creative department, brilliant ops department, because business can't function if it's not operationally fit to deliver up against the commercial plan.

You can't compare what it is now. I've got an incredible team. There's an incredible team at LYMA who, who have grown it to what it is today. I'm not an expert in all these different areas. 

Any founder, I think there's a lot of pressure that you have to wear all the hats and you do become a jack of all trades and a master of a few, but knowing when to then outsource and bring people in to help. 

 I think at LYMA, we [00:18:00] exist in the spaces that you can't see if you exist in the spaces that you can't see, you start to think outside the box and you start to not act as one of those cyclical companies that just leech onto whatever else is going on in the industry and change it a bit. 

 How much trends are you looking at, or are you just going your own path? 

We take our own path. Absolutely. We are influenced by our product pipeline and that alone. I think maybe that's why we are on a different trajectory maybe. But we know exactly where we're going and I think once you realise who your consumer is, so like by the end of year two, we had a very clear, idea of who our consumer is.

Once you know all the details about that person, then you can start to replicate that, in other demographics, but taking the same emotional states, at their core. was going to say, how much are you looking at the competition? Not [00:19:00] that you have direct competition, but are you looking at the markets or you completely tunnel vision on what you know stands for LYMA?

I don't want to sound deluded. 

 Ultimately we are not looking at the existing markets. We are looking at the, the opportunity around the product pipeline.

That we have, and I think that's where we at LYMA are focused. It's a different path. It is, it's a different, It's very different to the rest of the beauty industry or the rest of the wellness industry. 

And then in terms of the retention, I know that LYMA have got a power circle, a membership program. Membership programs across all services, products. You look at the hotel segment, you look at airlines, you look at online beauty companies, how transformational has that been to the business?

 We only launched the Power Circle this year, I think we'd put so much into building the products and the acquisition that I felt as though we just [00:20:00] not given enough back to our customer base. So we launched the power circle with something called the power move, which is an incredible fitness regime.

That kind of complements the LYMA supplement and the laser to help your body feel better. Most people launch with like points and make prizes or something like that. I just wanted to have a tangible benefit.

So this exercise program was something that I'd been using myself and we've been, seeding out to influencers for a couple of years. And it was so well received and that we just thought that seemed the best fit to launch our proposition within. And yes, there are offers, there's discounts off, other brands discounts off our own products and, you get onto different tiers, but fundamentally, I wanted it to be based on the length of time. 

It wasn't what you'd spent, it was the length of time that you were with the [00:21:00] brand that kind of put you onto these different tiers.

It's so important, especially with the rise, and again, Thea from Nails INC. was fascinating talked about this because she launched in the dot com year 25 years ago, seeing the change in consumer habits from bricks and mortar to online, where you don't get to meet your customer face to face as often as you'd like and get that live feedback from them. Having some sort of interaction. It's fantastic, but for you guys to be able to build that community, presumably it feeds back to the business for you guys as well, because you're seeing more, you're hearing more, you're engaging more with your client.

It's interesting actually, because when we launched the power circle, we sent an email out andit was just so interesting to hear all the customer feedback come back, like it was almost like, to hear such a lot of voices back was so helpful to us. 

 But you tend to only hear, yeah, some people call in 

or, I've really felt this benefit, whatever. But, a lot of the [00:22:00] time it's like, where's my parcel or something, Something like that. Brits are very good at complaining, saying something negative. They're not very good at offering up something positive. 

 But it was nice to speak to them about, cause obviously, we're there to help, we're there to find people's parcels or whatever, but it was actually nice to have such a positive communication with our customers. 

 Rather than just a one way and

it's I'm quite envious because with podcasting, you put it out into the world and you can see the download numbers, but unless someone rates and reviews, hint to anyone listening, you never get any feedback and people do, oh, you don't need to rate and review

the feedback's brilliant. 

 Feedback is gold. It's amazing. And then, as part of B Corp is asking your, you clients for feedback and asking your team for feedback and asking your service providers for feedback. And I went to town last year asking everybody to be as candid as possible. And even my team, I was like, guys, you've got to tell me when I've got egg on my face.

And if my mascara is run, you're my mirror. I need you to tell me when I'm making mistakes. And they're like, Oh, we really don't telling you when there's a typo in your [00:23:00] emails. It's But I pay you to do that, please tell me. So they have to, but when you've clients offer up feedback and I've become that annoying person and my mum tells me off that I offer it when it's not asked for. I'd be like, you can do it in a very polite way because if it's something that a business will benefit from.

It's like when I speak to my daughter, it's she's I really didn't need you to share that with me.

No, mum says it's helpful

inadvertently. 

that. Telling me off. 

Yeah, there's feedback and constructive criticism, but I think, yeah, for you to have that engagement with your community is wonderful. And have you made different decisions because of it from what you've heard from the community?

Think it's definitely shaping how the power circle evolves.

With our

product, we absolutely have a very clear roadmap. We know exactly what's going to be happening for the next five years. For our community, you know,our power circle exists

as a, something lovely for our members.

So it's very much, we [00:24:00] want to be guided by them because. Otherwise we're never going to provide I guess it's like a restaurant not listening to it's diners, without happy diners, you're not going to have a restaurant.

 What would you suggest to founders or what should founders consider when they're designing their own loyalty programs? Listen to your customers. Don't be deluded as to thinking your customers want the same that you want, you've got to listen to your customers. You've got to, yeah, it has to be customer led. I think I firmly believe that can't be led from the brand. It has to be led from your community.

 We've actually had a really strong Facebook community for years and we've got a separate closed Facebook communitywith different members. And I think, we've been asking these people questions for years, constantly, seeing how that evolves, seeing how that opinion changes.

Seeing when we launched different products, how that opinion changes. 

[00:25:00] And in your experience, what makes clients loyal to a particular brand?

Overriding it's all to do with the product.

 Especially in our industry, it has to be, it has to have unrivaled efficacy. I think if you've got unrivaled efficacy, then, you're going to have brand trust. And then you overlay the rest of the brand personality from that. But fundamentally it's gotta work.

And I think that so much of the wellness industry is marketing hypeand when you were asking some, if you bought a jumper, obviously you come from Chanel or, if you bought a jumper, you, and the actual jumper was different to what was going to be on the label.

Then, you know, that would be a void purchase, but I think, in the wellness industry is so much like mamby pamby there's so such little regulation to mean that your supplement has to work or your beauty device has to work. Yes, it has to be safe, but does it have to work?

No. 

 [00:26:00] So I think that's where, that's what kind of sets maybe LYMA apart fromthe other brands.

My colleague, Francesca and I are beauty addicts. I started 25 years ago in beauty and launching Asprey Fragrance then went to Chanel and Givenchy and I've had wonderful brands to work on. And she and I work on this beautiful fragrance brand called Matiere Premiere together and we are packaging addicts, but it's when it's skincare, we're both obsessed with skincare and it's when someone else says, Oh my goodness, your skin looks great.

It's that you want to bottle and go,

 it's proven, it works. I'll

Yeah. Or what if you had done,

Yeah. When someone else notices the mascara effect and that public relations, that PR, which public, not just press relations is just gold dust for any business or

service or product.So something that we do is a question from the guest before, which I've mentioned was Thea from Nails Inc. And her question for you was, what would you do if you weren't afraid of anything? Often founders are their own worst enemy and hold themselves back and it's their fear [00:27:00] that might stop them doing something. But for you, if you had zero fear, what would you do? 

I did start 

to become fearful because I thought the bigger it is, the more you've, the more you've got to lose.

Yeah. And it's I did go through a stage of being quite, a bit overwhelmed as to what LYMA had become. There was, a neuroscientist who is explaining about what the subconscious, like your fears are only your subconscious talking to you and your subconscious is only there to protect you against trauma.

It's not speaking reality. So whenever I get this narrative in my head,I actually speak to myself and I say, I'm not listening to my subconscious. I'm not listening to my subconscious. It completely goes. And as soon as it completely goes, the fear goes. And I think that, you can't act [00:28:00] in business or in relationships or anything.

You can't act through fear because you'll always make the wrong choice. So I think actually eliminating that narrative in my head. Is the most powerful thing that I've done. 

So interesting. Hamish Mackay Lewis is a coach and he talked about the fact that we all talk about imposter syndrome and he's it's not a syndrome, it's not a diagnosis. You can't be diagnosed with imposter.

It's imposter thoughts and 

 just listening to this narrative in your head,

 It's trying to protect you, but actually you can go, you're not actually helping as much as you think you are. And you can dial the volume down.

 It's there to protect. this, I would remember it like it was yesterday. It's there to protect you against ultimately, 

I guess danger or death, or, that's what it's there for.

The only danger in a business is that you listen to these voices that are not based on anything rational.

And you don't take action. I think that's the thing is that as long as you're comfortable with jumping off a cliff 10 times a day and not really knowing all the answers straight away, you'll be fine. And I was like, I'm Chanel trained, that [00:29:00] sounds awful. And as long as you're happy with vulnerability and failure and you keep iterating and trying and you keep your head above water and keep going, you're going to be fine.

But that fear, that risk of no, that's dangerous. It might be dangerous. You've just got to go for things, which I

love your attitude. It's brilliant. And what would your question be for our next guest?

I think the question for the next guest would be, What makes you powerful?

Oh, I might throw that one back to you right now. What makes you powerful? You

What makes me powerful? 

my team.

I guess what makes me powerful is that I refuse to listen to anything that is not going to serve me well. So as it goes back to that whole subconscious thing and actually not listening to your subconscious, cause it is not there to serve you with any good. 

There's no lion that is coming towards me. The building is not going to fall down. 

I hit that [00:30:00] year too of, I don't have time to waste and I'm not going to waste it on worry because that's not actually going to get me anywhere. I am that PR person that you carry the umbrella and it won't rain. So with events, a hundred things can go wrong and if everything goes right, it's okay.

 Being in the present. And I never fully appreciated about being in the present. I never knew how to be in the present. Everyone's saying, you've got to be in the present. Think about your breathing and all of that. And that doesn't mean anything. It's what, I am in the present.

And it was only when you stop all the voices in your head. So you stop that narrative. If you say, I'm not listening to my subconscious, that actually. You automatically become present. And I think that to me anyway, that was the biggest kind of power that I learned. Yeah, it was a complete revelation.

It came from an Instagram reel. So 

So doom scrolling is not all bad is what you're saying.

No.I find it very entertaining going 

through my [00:31:00] Instagram 

and what the algorithm wants to present

I love that. Thank you so much, Lucy. It's been incredibly insightful chatting to you about

everything LYMA and everything

you've done at such a quick pace. It's very impressive. Very impressive.

Indeed. I'm sure. 

the next year will be an exciting 

one. 

If you'd like to contact Lucy, you can find all of her details in the show notes along with a recap of the advice that she has so kindly shared.