Thea Green MBE, Nails.INC: How to generate sales overseas

How to generate sales overseas?

With only 11.9% of UK SMEs exporting their goods & services internationally, more support is needed to help businesses scale overseas. So, I wanted to hear from a founder who has generated millions in international sales. 

Thea Green MBE founded Nails.INC in 1999 at the age of 23 & has since revolutionised the UK nail care industry with her polishes & treatments. In 2013, Nails.INC was awarded a Queen's Award for Enterprise for international trade & today exports to over 20 countries. 

Keep listening to hear Thea’s advice on how to get started with sales and then how to conquer exporting.

Thea’s advice: 

• Concentrate on the customers’ needs
• Enjoy working out what the next trend will be
• Have good PR when starting up
• Find the new angle
• If you believe in it, you will be able to sell it
• Keep your standards high
• It’s easier to sell when there’s a story to personalise the product and make it relevant
• Listen to the customer and solve their problems
• Excite the customer
• Engage with the customer and listen to them
• It’s essential to employ good sales people
• Renew your enthusiasm by concentrating on the aspects of the business you enjoy
• It’s helpful to consider your budget over the long term
• Sales will be transformed when you become a brand; and when you do your first business overseas

FF&M enables you to own your own PR & produces podcasts.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

FF&M recommends: 

• LastPass the password-keeping site that syncs between devices.
• Google Workspace is brilliant for small businesses
• Buzzsprout podcast 'how to' & hosting directory
• Canva has proved invaluable for creating all the social media assets and audio bites.

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod.  Link &  Licence

Transcript

HTSU Thea Green, Nails.INC

Juliet Fallowfield: [00:00:00] With only 12 percent of UK's SMEs exporting their goods and services internationally, more support is needed to help businesses scale overseas. With this in mind, I wanted to hear from a founder who's generated millions in international sales. 

Thea Green founded Nails Inc.

in 1999 at the age of 23 and has since gone on to revolutionize the UK nail care industry with her polishes and treatments. In 2013, Nails Inc. was awarded the Queen's Award for Enterprise for international trade and today exports to over 20 countries. keep listening to learn how Thea started in South Morton Street with her first ever store and then very quickly expanded from there.

Hosted by me, Juliet Fallowfield, founder of the B Corp certified PR communications and podcasting consultancy, Fallow, Field & Mason. Our mission is to enable you to master your own storytelling, whether that be via PR or podcasting, all with a long term view.​

I

Thea Green: I can go one along and then I'm completely out of the window. I'm 

Juliet Fallowfield: this. This is not your first recording. I can tell. 

Thea Green: good. 

Juliet Fallowfield: It is gorgeous wallpaper. Where is it from?

Thea Green: Um, do you know, I don't remember. I need to look. It's, it's an, it's, we've had it for years in here. Um, do I remember where we got it? I don't actually. We've had it forever.

We don't, but I love wallpaper. I mean, the amazing wallpaper as I just did it in my bathroom is, um, he, the guy that owns it was my neighbor.

So, um, he gave me a very good deal, but de Gournay wallpaper is like the, the, like the nicest, you know, it's amazing, but it's, it's this price, probably the price of your house all over again.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, that's the thing, that's the joy of moving house is that you have no money to do anything with it. So I've got to sit here for at least a year and

Thea Green: remember I did the same thing. You just can't, you then can't afford to do anything, can you? You just have to just wait.

Juliet Fallowfield: but it's good because I think I was trying to do things too quickly and suddenly I was like, actually, I need to see a few seasons and actually

Thea Green: I think you do in a house. Cause I think I, the work that I've been in my house for years, but the work that I've done in my house. You know, later has been so much more successful than the work we did when we first moved in when you're just kind of desperate to get rid of something you hate, because you actually know how the house operates and what you actually need.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. Exactly. And then even the other day, there's, um, a funny window through to the kitchen and I put a light over here and when I'm in the kitchen, the light, just the shape of the light through the window is game changing. Things like that. You're

like, trial and error it, but anyway,

Thea Green: Yeah, you just need time. I mean, the problem with all of us guys is we don't have enough time sitting at home doing it, but you'll also see it over the Christmas break when you're at home a bit more.

You'll feel, you know, you feel it more. I think the more you're at home,

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. And just being in a

place and seeing. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

where the light falls. Oh, well, this is a conversation for another day,

definitely. But thank you so much for your time. Um,

the podcast is all about starting and scaling businesses and to help other people. I started mine in the pandemic and it was very much, I think a 7 percent increase at Companies House and new companies being registered and to help other people go, you know what, I can take the leap.

And everyone I've interviewed has been so humble and vulnerable about the Yes, it's really hard work, but be okay with the imposter syndrome or experience, it's not a syndrome. Um,

and just what to do now next to never. So pitfalls to avoid, and then we've got into these season focuses. So we did health and wellness, productivity, and we did finance.

We've done all sorts of investment. We've just finished the productivity season, which will air next week, the last episode of that season.

And this will be the 13th season about sales, because

a lot of people and a lot of our clients on our PR side of our job are brilliant jewelry designers

or amazing fragrance designers, but they aren't thinking cashflow

and business And a few business coaches to me have said it's not because the idea is not good. It's because there's just no cashflow in the

Thea Green: Yeah. Yes. Very often.

Juliet Fallowfield: And without sales, you know, you haven't got a business. A lot of people don't like to admit that 95 percent of their founder job is sales.

Um, and it's telling me a lot that it's taken us 13 seasons to come to this topic

because we've been lucky we've built the business on inbound referrals. For three years, I've been like, well, that's not a tap I can control.

Thea Green: Yes.

Juliet Fallowfield: How do we conquer sales? So I would love to just chat to you about

everything you've done and, or things you wish you did differently

or things you'd be like, avoid that at all costs, anything like that.

Um, But to get going,

I have to do this very cringe introduction.

You think 130 episodes in, I'd be more comfortable with doing this,

but it's like, 

Thea Green: Thank 

Juliet Fallowfield: you Thea

for joining How To Start Up today, it would be great before we get started in the topic of sales to find out about and the

business that you started.

Thea Green: Yep, so I'm Thea Green, I'm the founder of Nails Inc. Started my business quite a [00:01:00] long time ago, which makes me very old, back in 1999, um, which is Nails Inc., and since then we've gone on and opened up a number of other brands as well. 

Juliet Fallowfield: And you were 23 when you started, what brought you to that revelation at such a young age? 

Thea Green: So I had, I think all my life, I mean I, I don't remember not, I'd always wanted to work in fashion since I was, um, um, a small child and I wasn't particularly good at drawing.

So I went to London College of Fashion straight from school and did a fashion journalism marketing degree and absolutely loved it and always wanted to work in that fashion environment. I still feel like Nails Inc today is very kind of, you know, involved in that fashion sphere in lots of ways. So I still feel like I work in fashion.

Um, But I always wanted to work in fashion and I started working in magazines. Really enjoyed it. Um, But definitely I think one of the things I loved about magazine was the end consumer. You know, I think I very quickly became obsessed with what she or he wanted when they were reading it. They wanted advice about, you know, what to wear, what to, you know, particularly Tatler, what to wear, um, what to buy, you know, where to go on holiday, where to travel, what to read, you know, what books were interesting, you know, who [00:02:00] to listen to in a podcast, um, wasn't quite podcast generation, but you know, what to watch, all of that.

Um, And I think I just became obsessed with the customer. And so I think that was a kind of natural progression to go, well, I love working at magazines and you are serving the customer cause you're telling them what's next, but also the skill you learn. And you'll know this well from kind of doing journalism is you really enjoy working out what's next.

So when you see a little trend bubbling, so it could be, you know, uh, a big macro trend, you know, in terms of sustainability, or it could be just a colour trend, you know, everyone's wearing X, um, or, you know, something that's coming from a kind of street style trend or something that's coming from tech that you think is relevant in beauty or fashion, um, or even from food, which is often a big influence.

I, um, I sort of, I love, I love that game of like, you know, because there's so much that happens all the time, but 90 percent of it doesn't stick. So I love the, 

Juliet Fallowfield: The, Jigsaw Puzzle, 

I 

Thea Green: do love that jigsaw puzzle of going, Ooh, I saw that, which reminds me of that. And that's coming. And that means that probably we'll all start liking X, um, and that kind of trend forecasting.

Um, It doesn't sound like it has a huge amount to do with, with, um, with nail [00:03:00] polish in my business, but I feel like that's the obsession is about what's coming next. And what does the customer want? Like I'm obsessed with definitely the retailer, you know, that's buying, you know, that's, that's buying the products.

I know we're going to talk about sales, but more the end consumer, like what does she or he want and what 

Juliet Fallowfield: from there, 

Thea Green: yeah. And what's their desire to purchase. So is it because, you know, they need something that's going to save them more time or they need something that's completely on trend right now, or they need a problem solution because they're not, they don't have the budget to go to salons right now.

So it's those kinds of, um. Yeah, problem solutions that I really love. I'm obsessed with the customer. Obsessed.

Juliet Fallowfield: It's really interesting because we were chatting before saying how a lot of people talk about business isn't failing. And it's not the fact that the idea isn't good. It's the fact that they haven't got revenue in the business or

they haven't got cash flow. But, um, I think a lot of the time we see our clients on the PR side of the business not solving the problem for their client.

They're doing something they want to do, but they're not thinking, is there an audience for this? Does somebody want to listen?

For example, a PR pitch is like, well, we want to be on Vogue. It's like, but why does a Vogue writer want to write about you

for their [00:04:00] reader and going to that end result and working backwards? So for you, I think it was a trip to the US and you were seeing

nail salons over there that inspired you that

didn't exist in the UK. UK.

Thea Green: They didn't exist here, um, You know, women in the States at the time were getting their nails done, you know, at least once a month, many women getting their nails done kind of on a weekly 10 day basis. Um, And in the UK, it was the complete opposite, which is, um, the women that we did in a focus group, we did a focus group just before we started the business.

Um, They all had got their nails done. Never was the most common answer or for their wedding day. Or, you know, like a daughter's bar mitzvah or something, you know, it was, it was so infrequent, sister's wedding, you know, it was really once or twice in their lifetime. Um, Some people had gone on a spa day with like, you know, their sister or their mom.

And so they might've got a manicure then. Um, 

Juliet Fallowfield: Which, Just for the record, manicures in spas are never good. You

want to go to your high street and you want to get a quick manicure

and they are the best mani pedis 

had friends in Sydney, the same thing, saying we just want Australian manicures in England. And

so you were fixing that problem. You were bringing it to the 

Thea Green: They didn't. And then I think even in the US there was, um, there was this frequency of women having their nails done regularly, but [00:05:00] they didn't have, um, a brand or a product. So there wasn't a, an association that, you know, it was, they were quite scruffy and, um, great service, great service. Not no frills, um, but nice and affordable.

And, And really, I wanted to kind of bring that idea, but put product with it and, and build a brand, um, with the very much, well, you know, from day one, you know, you talked about revenue earlier, very much from day one, that the product would be able to be sold outside the salons, that the product would become recognised quickly enough that consumers would want to buy that from, um, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Um, cause my, the year we started 1999.

So, you know, When people would start to buy beauty online, that they would be interested in, in, um, you know, in buying Nails INC because the brand was established through the nail bars and through touching customers and having that experiential experience with them.

Juliet Fallowfield: So the product would work in a salon environment, and then you could also take it home

and top up your nails 

yourself. Or 

Thea Green: absolutely. Or buy it online and you weren't coming and getting a service and it would be an easy to use product that you could use yourself with or without the nail bar.

Juliet Fallowfield: So given you've got the idea, you've got the product, you've done surveys and you're looking at trends, how did you, at the age of 23, learn how to sell [00:06:00] the brand, the vision, the product? Because you have grown this insanely successful business, and I believe sold it.

Thea Green: Yes, we sold it this year. So I think, um, it's funny, isn't it? Cause you know, I think that when you are 23, I think that probably is like a really nice weapon. So, um, I can't go back to being 23, but I think being 23 and being probably, um, you know, pretty confident, highly naive, um, is probably quite helpful, but being hungry is helpful too. You know?

So I think, you know, we had. Very early on in Nails INC, quite a lot of things had to happen, um, in order to kind of have, you know, for the business model to, to, to be what we, you know, what we planned to do. So we had to open a nail bar that costs, you know, quite a lot of cash.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, That was on South Moulton Street. I

think, in the heart of 

Thea Green: Street. So an expensive rent with an expensive rent deposit, um, with an expensive shop fit design with a full range of product that would probably fit 50 stores, not one store because. Nail polish, like everything else comes with a minimum, you know, minimum, you know, quantity order. So, um, Because all of that was happening, uh, and we were selling effectively to the customer by going, you know, here's our premises, please come in because it [00:07:00] looks X, Y, and Z.

And we, we had a lot of PR well. So we had very good PR and queues around the block and, um, you know, on national TV and lots of great stuff. Cause it was the kind of first 15 minute manicure for people in their lunch break. So it had a good angle and a relevant news story to get the press, which was, you know, an environment I knew well and how to garner that.

Juliet Fallowfield: Got the traffic in early. Got 

Thea Green: the traffic in early, but still one nail bar was hardly going to change the world, right? So that's one nail bar with a whole team of people, by the way. So, you know, 10, 10 manicurists working in a store, a manager, a receptionist. So, you know, Hefty costs in every way.

Um, Going out everything going out the door, a hundred percent, Everything going out the door, um, money coming in.

Cause the store was busy, but absolutely not enough money to cover what was going on, um, in terms of costs. And so. we were, I think we were quite lucky in the fact, um, Fenwick's department store came into our store. Wonderful woman called Jill Streeter, who, um, used to manage Fenwick's. She came into our store and saw the queue and the buzz and the, you know, the hype and said, you could open in, um, in our ground floor in Fenwick's, you know, in 

in the

middle of the beauty, in the [00:08:00] middle of 

the beauty counter on Bond Street, which was fantastic.

And on the back of doing that, and she was, she was a tough cookie. And she taught us a hell of a lot of lessons very quickly. It was sort of baptism by fire in terms of remember, remember, we're now operating. We, you know, you only just And probably open for a couple of months. And a few months later, we're operating in Bond street in a department store with huge traffic.

And we are sitting next to, I remember Chanel was the counter next to us. You've got like Chanel, um, Estee Lauder, you know, those brands next to you. And, you know, 

Juliet Fallowfield: So go big or go home. You went straight in

Thea Green: yeah. And you're still writing your kind of training books for your team about, you know, how to do everything. Um, So there was quite an intense, steep learning curve.

But I think once we'd proven Fenwick's Bond Street, um, which still continues to be a learning curve. But once we proved that, we then went to other department stores. So Selfridges, Harvey Nichols, House of Fraser, Debenhams back in the day. Um, And I guess that's when selling came in, but I think it was driven by a couple of things.

One, okay, we've got some success. We can bottle this and roll it out. It [00:09:00] is scalable. Um, we have to scale out the nail bars to build the brand, to get to the next stage, which is wanting to sell the product in Boots, Superdrug, Sephora, 

Juliet Fallowfield: To get the volume, 

yeah,

yeah To 

Thea Green: get the volume. So I think you go in and sell, it's a very long answer to this question, 

Juliet Fallowfield: no, no, no. It's 

Thea Green: You, you go in and sell because A, you really believe in it. So you're really passionate about it. You do actually genuinely think you're changing the world despite the fact you're just manicuring people.

Juliet Fallowfield: but you need that, Someone 

said deluded belief that you've got something, because if you don't have it.

no one else is going to believe you.

Thea Green: And 

And I think that's what gives you the courage. And what, what was great about Nails INC very early on is I remember really early on people walking into the store and asking for either the products or services by name, and it gave you that it's a very, it was a very small pool of people.

You know, people, I mean, Really our first two stores were around the corner from each other, both in the heart of Mayfair, but it did give you very quickly. People are attached to this brand. They like it. They want to come back. They. They want to 

rebuy into the product. It's starting to be a brand. It's a brand for X many hundred or thousand people, not millions, but it's, it's definitely, it's starting to be a brand.

Um, And So, yeah, I think you, you are confident. [00:10:00] You don't really know all the pitfalls. That's quite helpful. Um,

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh, ignorance is bliss, for sure.

Thea Green: Ignorance is quite bliss. I think that is fair, but I also think because you don't know anything, you've got zero ego. And as people are trying, I mean, I really feel like this lady at Fenwick's, Jill Streeter, um, and actually Vanita, who runs Blink, Brow Bar, if you know her, she also went through the same experiences as me, because she opened up, was her first or two.

I feel like she also was like, in the best possible way, the strictest headmistress in retail you could have met. And she was old school. You know, If someone in my, in our team were wearing the kind of the wrong tights or they'd put me today. You could wear trainers with your outfit. I mean, Everything's changed so much.

This is back in the world where people wore heels, you know, and worked in a nail bar all day, you know, and would, would, you know, would, would, you know, kind of have that it's different kind of, of, of look and feel right, but she gave me such strict guidelines and I think also just eyes, she 

taught me how to just,

just to look at everything and to challenge and go, that's not good enough because again, the customer is who we're serving here.

So no, you can't be five minutes late. No, you can't wear the wrong outfit. You know, [00:11:00] You can't, you know, not say the correct thing to the customer at the right time. No, you can't, you know, not do the service fully just because the customer's five minutes late. You now have to work out how you're going to do her service and be on time for your next customer and kind of tough.

Um,

Juliet Fallowfield: compromising any standard at any

Thea Green: And I think that was really good for us. I think the pressure from her was really, it was brilliant pressure. Um, and, And we continue to go through that learning, you know, with all the department stores. And then we were lucky in the fact the department stores liked it. They needed a, They needed something different.

So we got quite favorable terms in terms of how we went into department stores. It's quite a small company. And we expanded then very rapidly, you know, as you know, House of Fraser and Debenhams had lots of stores. So we, we rolled out across the UK. Um,

Juliet Fallowfield: So 

you're selling to two different audiences. You're selling to the consumer who's using the product, the end product, but you're also then selling the brand into the retailers and would you say that retail expansion was the key to success for your brand building as big as it did to get that awareness out there?

Yeah.

Thea Green: Yeah, I mean, I, I guess today social media is what department stores were back then, you know, department stores back then were your advert, right? A counter in Selfridges or Harvey Nichols. So I'm just moving the light for you. A [00:12:00] counter in Selfridges or Harvey Nichols was an amazing advert. Um, 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, because people would go into Bricks and Mortar and 

Thea Green: browse.

Yeah. 

Yeah. And, you know, Today, I'm thinking of US retailers, but if you have a, you know, a big space in Target in the US or in Sephora or Ulta, it's an advert for your brand, right? Um, you know, Boots in that kind of premium stores, it's an advert for your brand, you know, and if Superdrug has, has, has rolled your product out across all their stores, they're telling their customers that they really back and believe this brand, right?

Um, Today it's probably a mixture of the high street retailers rather than the department stores and then also, um, social media, right? Tells you what's on trend. Influencers tell us what's, what's next, don't they? It's slightly different.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, That third party authority

that comes from coverage, either print, digital, influence, someone else saying that your product is good is way more authentic or believable than

you telling someone your product is good, but given to start with taking it back to that South Moulton Street hype and the PR got the footfall in the door,

but then your team, how, how very early on, did you convert or get your team [00:13:00] to convert those people coming in to buying the product?

Thea Green: Straight away, Straight away. So straight away we had, um, we trained the teams like they were, we didn't, they were manicurists. So we employed manicurists, but we turned them into retailers and they all had, you know, they were scripted in terms of brand story. They were very well trained. They talked about the products, um,

and they kind of made it a no brainer, which to be fair, it is, if you've just had your nails painted in, You know, a lovely turquoise and you haven't got that colour at home. The reality of nail polish is it will always chip. It will chip at some point. So if you want your manicure to last a little bit longer when you've paid for a manicure, you should always, I mean, I would say that to anyone now, unless you've got the colour, you would always buy the colour because you spent the money, the next bit's kind of, you know, the no brainer. Um, 

Juliet Fallowfield: So you'd frame it very quickly

and the price point of the service and the product, the framing and the sales

pitch. 

Thea Green: Did, we did, We framed it together as a kind of package, but we also made the shop feel very sweetie shop that you wanted to buy multiple colours and nail polish is joyful that way, right? You know, kind of rows of colour you want to buy, you know, the colour that you're wearing and maybe even some others.

Um, so it was a very [00:14:00] sweetie shop enticing environment.

Juliet Fallowfield: Is there something that you would say to a new founder coming in, whether it be a product based business or a

service based business to tackle when it comes to sales? What would you say that they need to get over the fastest?

Thea Green: What if they were talking to a consumer, if they're talking to a retailer, just.

Juliet Fallowfield: potentially, or I mean, for, it's an interesting one because everyone has a different product and different

service they need to sell, but everybody does need to sell,

is there any sort of things that you've learned along the way that

you'd want to advise founders on how to sell?

Thea Green: So I find it easy to sell a product if there's a story. So I've never been able to sell you, I'm wearing a burgundy nail polish. I've never, 25 years later gone, you should buy this burgundy nail polish because it's burgundy. So I don't, I don't really know how to do that. I've never really learned that skill.

Um, because I would just, I would think of as consumer and go, there's 25 other burgundies that you could buy. So.

Buy mine buy the one that's lowest price by the one that you know is your favorite brand.

Um, We always have storytelling in Nails INC. So that will be

anything from the formulation. So we have a 45 second speedy polish.

So I would be,

If I was talking to you about the colours, I would, I would talk to you about the fact it's 45 seconds and I know how time poor you [00:15:00] are. And you've just told me that you, you very rarely paint your nails because you don't have enough time. And I would talk to you about a category like 45 second speedy, or if you talked to me about nail health, I'd talk to you about ingredients rather than just a pure colour.

I just think it's easy. I think it's easier to basically, if you have storytelling. So

Juliet Fallowfield: So you're hearing the consumer's problem.

Like, Oh, my nails flake. It's like, well, in that case, you want this ingredient because it will nourish. Yeah.

Thea Green: I think problem solution and I think storytelling, um, because otherwise, you know, you, you buy the white shirt versus the white shirt. But if you buy the white shirt that you saw Sienna Miller wearing and she was doing it and hit this happen and that happened, and then suddenly it's not just a white shirt anymore.

I'm more probably inspired by that or just a solution. Like I love, uh, you know, I think we're all looking for those kind of time busting solutions, you know? so what's something that's going to cheat, but still look great. And I think I'm always looking for that in, in particularly in beauty. Like, What can you do

that's going to make you, you know, get 

Juliet Fallowfield: bigger picture 

Thea Green: it's 

fast. Yeah. I think storytelling gives you also. If you're on a pitch to a retailer, which today is so often done by like, you know, teams or zoom, if you're on a pitch to a retailer, I think your story's over [00:16:00] quite fast. If you're selling on something as basic as here's this colour or here's this style.

But if you go, we created X because we saw a gap in the market and we saw there was a white space because Um, we looked at what the other brands were doing and nobody has an op, a product that fits this gap, but here's the kind of consumer insights that say why the customer would want that, and here's what we're seeing happening in, you know, her general other lifestyle, how she's behaving in fitness tech.

Um, you know, Whatever else she's doing and we know that she's already buying this style of product. Let's just say time saving is a good one. We know that she likes things that are time saving or we know that she loves time saving and high tech. So we brought both of those elements into a new formulation because she's looking for the fastest way to do something and she wants to know it's backed by science because you know, technical ingredients are trending well.

Um, And that's why, and then I'd go, then I'd excite them with, I would absolutely do colour, but I'd go and here is all of this. And then I think the other thing with sales, not every business can do is a little bit of co creation is always helpful. So [00:17:00] I think to also today speak to the buyer that's buying from you, if it's the retailer or.

com and say, how would you think that what we've done could be packaged up differently to sell to you? So whether that's something as simple as. You can't make a packaging change. You're just going to do a virtual bundle on a website where you're going to say, here's our best sellers, you know, at price of X.

And that's how we're going to make something unique for you. Or whether it's, you know, a bigger retailer where you're going to say, I'm going to say Target, let's do the Target red, you know, colour for you because you want to celebrate that colour. Let's do that Target red. Um, But I would also, I think if you can engage them into what would you like to do, you like this product that we're showing you, but what would you like to do to make it better or make it unique to you?

I think 

most of the retailers today, they're engaged and they're looking for an exclusive and sometimes they don't go ahead with the exclusive at that round. But they go, Oh, you've reminded me you're a great company to work with because you can be the [00:18:00] company I go to if I've got an idea. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, exactly. And I think what you're saying about storytelling is so fascinating because I think a lot of people forget that people have a lot of information thrown at them

all the time. And if you give them a story and something that hooks onto that story, they'll remember it and they'll take it

home and it'll stay with them and it will come to the top of their mental inbox.

Thea Green: Exactly. 

Juliet Fallowfield: I recently, um, for my sins did a TEDx talk on why you are your own best storyteller. Yeah. And it was around my business name. It's my mom's maiden name and my father's surname. Because when I was 10, I worked out what maiden names were. I was like, but I'm half of both of you. When I start my business, I'm going to call it Fallow, Field & Mason because I'm

50%. But not because I want to get that out there, but it's people like, Oh, I remember the story behind it. And it sort of, 

it anchors something around it. 

Thea Green: I think so. it And I think, actually, you mentioned naming. I think naming's also really interesting. 

I think if you can tie into what customers feel like, or just even something witty on a name, you know, that just kind of ties in with a little bit of popular culture, I I think that's also great because it's [00:19:00] those names, especially in beauty.

It's those names that you remember and it also helps you repurchase it and Google, so it's, it's practical. It helps you Google search it

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, for SEO, 

optimization or SEO, 

um, it's interesting. So there's a couple of things, um, I was thinking about Pip who founded With Nothing Underneath the shirt brand

when Megan Markle wore her shirt to Wimbledon.

And then that surge that she saw, but then she called the shirt, the boyfriend shirt because every girl wants to wear the boyfriend's shirt and it's the with nothing underneath.

And the boyfriend and it, it's so clever because it's very, very simple, but memorable, but quite cool and quirky and

you are like, oh, I like that. Makes me feel good.

So again, thinking about that in consumer

and delivering that solution, but. In the way to get them to that solution. It's fascinating.

I remember once I think it was at Givenchy and they were talking about benefit and how they used to pat the seat in the department store when you walk past saying, Oh, just come and have a seat.

And they physically pat it, which meant you physically wanted to sit in the seat.

Little tricks and things like

Thea Green: Yeah, they were brilliant at it. I, um, I have someone that works in my business now that's X Benefit, and they, they were, they were such clever marketeers. Phenomenal.

Juliet Fallowfield: [00:20:00] Yeah, and made it fun and playful. But they

just capture something in that conversion was

fascinating. For you, given that you're now very, very successfully in the US market as well, was that a completely different pitch for you for US retailers? Um,

Thea Green: Change here and there.

But I think the messaging to the consumer what you and I've just talked about. This is great because you're time poor. This is great because you've got this issue is quite universal. Um, and I think building on that, um, And that's helpful for growing your business, right? If your top 10 is pretty much your top 10 everywhere, that is obviously very useful, um, in terms of building your product, you know, and also managing your stock, managing your cashflow, everything else that comes with that, it does get simpler, the less skew intensive you are.

So we definitely did carry on, um, with our kind of best sellers from the UK globally, um, and then every so often co creating with a retailer as well and doing something unique for them. Um, But I, I do think today, especially with social, I feel like the trend, you know, what's on trend moves globally so quickly. You know, I think when I think about my magazine days, you kind of had that view of, you know, kind of Paris chic and then, you know, what was trending in London, which was kind of like grungy and very cool, very, very cool, but like not really very [00:21:00] commercial.

I feel like today that, you know, it's, it's just all kind of one world, isn't it, which I really like.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, well, it makes it easy to have that data point. And now

we have data looking, you can see at Google Analytics, for example, we've got more than your store team telling you if

things work. I think I always found it so frustrating when I used to do high and find your EPR because you'd have to rely on the store teams who walked in with Tatler and pointed at the cover saying, I want that tiara,

you'd never be able to measure it, whereas

now with, you can measure 

Thea Green: everything 

Juliet Fallowfield: It's gorgeous that you

can. 

Thea Green: Wonderful.

Juliet Fallowfield: And for you, the brand Nails INC. has now three subsidiary brands, Holler and Glow, Incredible and My Mood. For you, how do you manage, it feels sort of the whack a mole of those incredible brands that you're building. Is it a different tactic to each? Are you applying the same learnings?

Thea Green: No. No. Each brand is definitely very different. What has, What was great about doing brands outside of Nails, INC. is Once you start doing something, you know, completely from scratch again. So Holler and Glow, which is our biggest brand outside of Nails Inc. Once you start building [00:22:00] out Holler and Glow and what the Holler and Glow looks like and the consumer of Holler and Glow, and you don't really have any rules right from the beginning, cause it's all new, what it did make me do was go back into Nails INC and break rules and go, these rules are just rules that we have internally.

We've got all these rules of like Nails INC. Price point is X. It doesn't do this. It stays in this lane. And then, you know, and it is, Nails INC is a relatively narrow lane anyway, because it's, it's all focused around nail products. Um, but it definitely, I think doing Holler and Glow made me for sure go, okay, well, why can't we have a, a luxury price point, an entry price point?

Why can't we also be in some ancillary products that are to do with nails, but aren't, you know, nail colour? Um, and. I think that's all quite, that's all quite helpful. What's great about having the other brands, because Nails INC is ultimately an expert in nail, is you can, Holler and Glow allows you to do anything.

So Holler and Glow is a very, like, free brand in the fact that it's originally set up in masking, it has lovely bathing range, um, it's a big successful brand in Target, but it [00:23:00] also has now opportunities to be in, like, this Christmas in, in Target. it's got, um, wonderful space in Target and it's, it's got everything from beauty accessories to a kind of slightly techy accessory to, um, colour cosmetics, lip balms, and it does have nail in it too.

There's some nails, so you know, some Nails INC learning's in there as well. But it's broad. And like, there's no, there's nothing that stops Hol if Holler and Glow wanted to be a brand that just did accessories for Apple iPhones, Holler and Glow can do that. And that's really, that's really, that it's a funny thing to say, that really then invigorates me into Nails INC because I then say to Nails INC, well Nails INC can also do, Holler and Glow can do whatever the hell it wants, it's like no rules, well then Nails INC must be allowed to go a little bit over here and here and what else can you do?

And it just, I think it frees you up because you have to think so creatively about new, it gives you a new energy into the old. 

Juliet Fallowfield: It's so interesting because Nails INC. to me is such an established brand, but you coming into it, you started it. It was your

idea. It was, it, You were Bambi in the first days, but now it's this huge established brand, but to keep yourself reinvigorated, it

must be quite hard, but this [00:24:00] challenger brand coming through would give you that entrepreneurial view again.

Thea Green: Yeah. And I think you need to keep having that. And that's why, and Holler and Glow is still very, very entrepreneurial. So, you know, and it really, it does have this kind of view of, we should be doing whatever the customer wants. It has like such a broad, um, 

Juliet Fallowfield: But again, going to the problem, what does the customer want?

They 

Thea Green: what does the customer want? Um, and Holler and Glow means it can do anything from flowy skin and care to tech accessories to beauty, so you can just play in any space.

Um, As long as the consumer and the retailers, you know, on board with it, we can play quite broad. So yeah, it does give you the the energy on Nails INC to go, well, hold on a second. Well, What else can Nails INC be doing? Um, And also to tell, you know, to feel confident with the team and say, we don't have all these rules.

These are like internal rules that we have. Um,

Juliet Fallowfield: Of the why.

Thea Green: yeah. And why are we, you know, why? Because actually the market's changed so much and, and people's relationship with salons and doing their nails or not doing their nails, and there was obviously COVID in the middle of that as well. Um, It's so different. You have to keep saying, what does she want?

What does she want to pay? What does she want the size impression to be like? What, How is she currently interacting with your product? What needs to change?

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, How's that customer changing that you want to serve? And this, this happens, I mean, I work in a coworking office, SoHo works and you hear a lot of founder chat and lots of it's in the gym as well. This

was sort of beating the chest in the weight room, 

but it's, it's the. It's the kind of founder [00:25:00] ego versus the consumer solution and actually none of us would be here without our clients.

They have to be the number one, as well as our employees, but they have to come 

first because without them we wouldn't have companies. And there's a lot of founders I've seen really struggle saying, but I want to do this. It's like, but if your customer doesn't want that,

it doesn't work. 

Thea Green: I know. 

Juliet Fallowfield: What would you say has been the most challenging part for you with Nails INC and sales generally?

Thea Green: I think finding good salespeople to represent your brand is not easy. I don't know how you found that. I think that's quite challenging. Um, I have great people in my business at the moment, absolutely fantastic. But I think, you know, finding people to go out and represent your brand and sell it as well as you could sell it.

Um, That's challenging. We have a great sales team today, phenomenal.

And particularly with the acquisition, we have a particularly strong sales team as well, both UK and US side. Um, But you know, I think, you know, in the early days getting that message across, um, you know, you wear so many hats as an entrepreneur, right?

I mean, that's the challenging bit. You just do. Sort of what excites you every day is you're wearing 200 hats. And what makes you want to quit is you're wearing [00:26:00] 200 hats. You know what I mean? That's, That's always been the challenge. That's what I, you know, I'm, I'm lucky enough to now know lots of other, um, founders, particularly female founders, um, through a network.

And, you know, I think we, we'll, you know, you, you, I think entrepreneurs naturally have that want to do it all. 

Um,

But yeah, it's a lot of hats and it's a lot of pressure.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, It's interesting because we had a question from our last guest, which was Molly and Joel who

Thea Green: Yeah. founded Desmond & Dempsey Yes, I wear those pyjamas. I love it. I love those pyjamas. I was wearing them last night. They're fantastic.

Juliet Fallowfield: amazing, massive coincidence because Molly's question for you is how do you manage to hang on to the things that you love in your role?

And it's hard because when you grow so quickly and your brand is what, 25 

years old, you will have had to give other bits of the job that you love to other people, but how have you managed to ring fence the parts that you love?

Thea Green: I think I still go back to creatives. That doesn't mean I can be creative all day or even every day, but I go back to, um, what we talked about at the beginning, which is what does the customer want? What is exciting? What's happening in the wider world? And how can [00:27:00] we bring that into something exciting going forward?

And so I very quickly put myself back into, um, I guess it's a mixture of product development and marketing, right? It's a, It's a combo. And I go back there. I don't ever like to go too many days without doing that. Um, So I, I definitely pull myself back into that quite quickly. The rest, I think if other people are doing, so whether it's, you know, Sales, Finance, Ops, if other people are doing that, that's fine

um, and that's great. And you need all the support you can. I think when it comes to the creative piece of thinking about the consumer. And just that 360, I think you just learn as a founder, right that 360 of, um, you know, kind of going, problem solution, but like, what are all the facets? What does this look like to the end consumer?

What would the marketing be? How would I talk to a retailer about this? Um, how would we even develop it? Who would we go to? Which factory would we talk to? That 360 piece. I think that probably is quite a founder skill. Um, Because you did it at the beginning, right? Where you had to think about all the elements.

Most people who've worked in an [00:28:00] organization have never had to think in that 360 way.  

Juliet Fallowfield: And for you, that makes you feel like you've got your finger on the pulse. And

Thea Green: It gets me, It makes me feel grounded again. Yeah, definitely. Just to be back into it. Um,

Juliet Fallowfield: I Don't know what this is about me. It's spreadsheets for me. I absolutely love spreadsheets and

budgets. Yeah. I was up here on communications. I was like, I love a spreadsheet, but

whatever it is, you need to get back to it.

Thea Green: I think so. And I think budgeting does that as well. I think if you're feeling at all anxious about, I don't know, good news, bad news, or maybe some bad news, I think budgeting and going, okay, it's not about today.

It's about the 12 month period or the 24 month period. Yeah. 36 month period. I think budgeting also grounds you in terms of the longer term view, because any business can have a bad day, bad week, bad month. What's the longer term view of where are we going over a, over a collective period. And then I'm destabilised by not having a good team.

I think that's my, I think whenever I don't have the right people in all the kind of key roles, I would feel destabilised. I definitely need to have a good solid team around me.

Juliet Fallowfield: Everyone says people are the [00:29:00] hardest part, the best and the hardest

Thea Green: The best and the hardest, the best and the hardest. No, we've got a phenomenal team here at the moment, but it's, you know, but they're talented and talented people get hot handed all the time.

So, you know, That's the other challenge is, you know, making sure that you retain them and that they're excited and they're developing with you.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, You're doing something right. Cause in our research, it said that Nails INC. turnover was 20 million pounds in 2023 and

projected to hit 25 million in 2024. They estimated 32 million in 2025. So you've got the right people

doing the right 

Thea Green: We've got phenomenal people. No, we're very lucky.

Juliet Fallowfield: Joel's question was, what was the step change for you regarding sales?

What, What for you happens that just went and it just transformed the business.

Thea Green: I would say two things. I would say taking the product outside of the nail bars and it being a brand. Um, So we did that in the UK, first of all, with Boots and John Lewis and QVC, all, all very quick and all in very quick succession of each other. And then doing our first overseas business, we did the US and Japan again, similar times.

Um, I think we are definitely that business that if you see an opportunity, you'll seize it. Um, But I [00:30:00] think, you know, doing, you know, doing those things versus the original core nail bars and knowing that was always kind of the mission of the business, you know, take product outside of the bars and then to take the bar then to take that product outside of the UK as well.

Um, And that definitely transformed it from a sales level.

Juliet Fallowfield: It's interesting, someone said in season one, as long as you're happy with the company you run in five years being nothing like the company that you start

today, you're fine. Just be completely open minded and 

Thea Green: lean into 

Juliet Fallowfield: it.

Thea Green: Yes. Yes, I think that's good advice. I think that's really good advice because I think, like you said before, if you've got a founder or CEO, anyone that just wants to do what they've always been doing, right? Um, Because it's their vision and their idea. And you meet those people all the time. You know, you often get them in, in my world, you often get them in designers and creative people where they go, but I need it to look like this because this is my vision.

And I go, okay, but the consumer doesn't understand that, or the consumer doesn't care. Yeah. You know, worse. It's not even like they didn't understand it. They just, they don't care. They don't think it's relevant. Like you're just wasting their time. And they're interesting challenges to have, um, amongst the business, but I think you're right.

I think the [00:31:00] core of Nails INC, which is we are a nail polish brand serving what the consumer wants and, you know, the product would stand outside of a nail bar is still the same business. But there is, you know, We didn't intend to set up our, you know, other brands doing other things outside of Nails INC.

And Holler and Glow at some point could surpass the turnover of Nails INC. or certainly be the same. So, um, it's growing very quickly. So, 

yeah, Do you sleep? I love to sleep. Um, I think I'm a mix actually. Do you sleep? 

Juliet Fallowfield: I,

do. I wasn't when I was moving house, but I'm loving the fact I'm back to sleeping now because it just sounds like you've got so much going on, but you manage it seamlessly. You're the swan.

Thea Green: I, I, I think I do a sort of catch up sleep. So, um, Our business at the moment, we're, you know, we're, we're owned by an LA company, so I have some funky time differences to manage and I can definitely do that for a while and then I need a big catch up. So then I will go to bed at literally eight o'clock, you know, and

have, and have, and have a great sleep or do it on the weekend.

Um, but I. Yeah, I need to, I do need to sleep, but I also, if I've got a to do list and things to do, I've, I've got, I've got [00:32:00] very high energy levels to kind of keep going and do it as long as you feel like you're making progress. I can be quite lazy if I don't feel like I'm making progress. You know, I'm, I'm sort of very active if I feel like it's moving forward.

Um, 

Juliet Fallowfield: It's that entrepreneurial mind, which is like, lots of things going on and you want to do them and you're drawn to them, which is exciting.

But if it's 

Thea Green: not moving fast enough, I kind of retreat and sort of like rework the plan a bit and sort of go back for a bit, try and work out why it's not moving forward. Um, kind of go back into myself for a bit.

Juliet Fallowfield: What would your question be for the next guest? It could be anything around sales or starting business or

Thea Green: Mine would be what you would do if you're not afraid. So I think that's always the interesting, if I could go back into now saying, you know, so many moments when you're afraid. So mine would be what would you do if you're just not afraid. If you're just not frightened.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. I mean, someone who's, I can't remember who it was yesterday, saying you are, you can be your own worst enemy and

it's only your own limiting beliefs that will tell you can't do something. And

that deluded optimism you have when you start a business is like,

I'm going to solve this problem. It's going to be amazing.

And then[00:33:00] 

I think we're coming up to year five in April. It's like, I am quite 

tired now. This is still a job and I've worked really hard, but you need that fire in your belly to

keep being like, and that's where we got BCORP certified last year. And that for me was

that. it to you. Yeah. Yeah. 

Um, So yeah needing that kind of, and when you were 23, I imagine you were like, right, take over the world.

Why not? But if you're not afraid, you're genuinely not afraid. And I think that's when you have no overheads and no team and no, no other people's livelihoods at stake. 

Thea Green: But even when you've got other people's livelihoods, I remember someone saying that to me as very good advice. Cause I remember early days of Nails INC thinking, wow, I don't know if I meant to be this responsible for this many people. Oh my goodness. You know, if you really think about it, people are literally relying on their mortgage payments by your salary.

When you're a startup, if you actually thought that through, you'd probably never do it. And I do remember people saying to me or someone saying to me, but first of all, they all have, everyone has a choice and they have obviously believed in what [00:34:00] you're doing. The responsibility really is for you just to follow through what you, what you said to them, you were going to do rather than thinking about, you know, their income, their mortgages or your own.

I think quite interesting. We could go, you told them something now, just carry on delivering what you said to them was going to happen. Um, Cause they've already believed it. They're already selling your dream to other people. They're already spreading the word. So just go and, you know, kind of finish what you said you would, you'd start with them.

And I find that quite relaxing. And then I don't know if you do this, but I also sort of go worst case scenario quite fast.

And then I find that catastrophising, find catastrophising very calming.

Juliet Fallowfield: A completely, hence the spreadsheets. You run the

numbers, you run the numbers, you run the numbers. You're like, actually, it's all fine.

Thea Green: It's all 

Juliet Fallowfield: about? Yeah, It's all 

fine. 

Oh, I love this. Thank you so much, Thea. This is wonderful

advice. It's been a joy talking to you and 

huge congratulations 

Thea Green: Thank you.

Thank you so much and to you too.

Thank you for everything.

Juliet Fallowfield: Let me quickly click stop and it will update. 

If you'd like to contact Thea you can find all of her details in the show notes along with a recap of the [00:35:00] advice she has so kindly shared.