Chloë Luxton | Bramley: How to start sustainably

Welcome to How to Start Up, the podcast that goes beyond the headlines to uncover how startups really begin, straight from the founders who lived it. I’m Juliet Fallowfield, founder of FF&M, where we empower you to take charge of your PR and launch your podcast with confidence.

In today’s episode, we’re joined by Chloë Luxton, founder of Bramley. With sustainability as a top priority, this company is providing customers with botanical magic through natural fragrances, bulk refill pouches, and recycled packaging.

Keep listening to hear how Chloë got started and why slow growth was her friend. Also, her perspective on B Corp and the pros and the cons of getting certified as well as the pros and cons of being a founder and how to manage that isolation that can often feel relentless.

Chloë's Advice: 

• If it’s a good product, free samples will really generate sales and boost reputation
• Keep up with developments in recycling (for example, compostable refill pouches)
• If sustainability is something you believe in, then it will make your choices more straightforward
• Sometimes it’s complicated, but all you can do is make the greener choice
• B-Corp will give your business recognition
• It’s a good idea to make packaging which can serve a second purpose later
• Packaging apart, it’s what’s on the inside - the product itself - that really matters
• Take advantage of networking opportunities; put yourself out there
• To avoid isolation as a single founder, talk issues over with others whenever possible

FF&M enables you to own your own PR & produces podcasts.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2024 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

FF&M recommends: 

• LastPass the password-keeping site that syncs between devices.
• Google Workspace is brilliant for small businesses
• Buzzsprout podcast 'how to' & hosting directory
• Canva has proved invaluable for creating all the social media assets and audio bites.

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod.  Link &  Licence

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Juliet: Welcome to How to Start the podcast that goes beyond just the headlines to uncover how startups really begin straight from the founders who lived it. I'm Juliet Fallowfield, founder of Fallowfield and Mason, where we empower you to take charge of your PR and launch your podcast with confidence in house.

In today's episode, we are joined by Chloë Luxton, founder of Bramley, with sustainability as a top priority, this company is providing customers with botanical magic through natural fragrances, bulk refill pouches, and recycled packaging. Keep listening to hear how Chloë got started and why slow growth was her friend.

Also, her perspective on B Corp, and we discussed the pros and the cons of getting certified as well as the pros and cons of being a founder and how to manage that isolation that can often feel relentless.

Hi Chloë, thank you so much for joining How To Startup today. It would be wonderful if you could introduce a little bit about yourself and a bit about the business that you have started.

Chloe: Well, [00:01:00] thank you for having me. It's great to be here and lovely to meet you. 

 I'm Chloë, founder of Bramley natural Bath, Body, and Skincare brand. I started Bramley 16 years ago now. and it was because my husband and I 

We were living in London and we wanted to move out of, London. and we found a pub called the Beckford Arms, and it had eight bedrooms and it's in this beautiful area of Wiltshire you come off the A303, you're halfway between London and Cornwall.

You, you drive through this old arch and then you come through and there's like a lake to your left. It's absolutely stunning. And then at the end, you come to this pub and it's just so beautiful. so it had eight bedrooms and I had been in the bath and body industry before 

And 

I wanted to put something beautiful in the bedrooms, for the bathroom products 'cause that was my sort of area of expertise.

And I looked around and at the time it was very much single use, tiny plastic bottles. Do you remember those 30 mLs?

Juliet: You can never get [00:02:00] anything out of them.

Chloe: You could never get anything outta them. And they were generally came from, China and they were just single use plastic with nothing really in it, just like watery based products.

And I was like, this just doesn't reflect what we want to do here. So I was like, brilliant. I'm gonna create my own and so that's basically how Brandley started. So I went and, worked with an apothecary based in Somerset. So like an hour from where we are now. and we put together these blends.

I wanted each one to be like the best it can be. So I was like, this can be like the best hand wash you've ever tried, or the best hand cream.

So that was quite a good sort of starting point really, because then you just go from there and you just literally, I just put everything into it. I think if I'd started now, I'd probably would've potentially done it differently, but, I think it's also partly the beauty of the brand in that. for me it they all had to be natural bases and back then it was all about parabens and it's been microplastics and everything.

So 16 years ago, not many people were doing that sort of natural story. So, I wanted to be really natural. and just fragrance with the pure [00:03:00] essential oils. So the essential oils, have amazing therapeutic effects,but they also smell amazing. So for the hand wash for instance, we've got in there clary sage and lavender, which have like renowned antibacterial, antisepticqualities. So, that's the sort of the hand wash. And then in the shampoo conditioner we had rosemary and lemon, which have really good sort of cleansing properties. So, just six products, it was everything you needed for a night away.

So it was hand wash, hand cream, shampoo, conditioner, body wash and body lotion. And they each had all of their sort of different fragrances but they tied together with this beautiful sort of citrus space. 'cause I wanted them all to be the citrus just is always a lovely, uplifting sort of fragrance. 

And so yeah, so that's how it started basically. And I was brought up in the Anita Roddick era of the body shop and, the ozone layer. And we had to be, recycling plastic and not single use. And so I wanted the hotels to, they had big sort of five liter refill, Jerry cans, and then they would fill up each of the bottles.

so there was no bottles being [00:04:00] chucked away or anything. So it was, sustainability was really at the core of everything we did then, and pretty much still is.

Juliet: 16 years ago, how did you go from creating the beautiful guts of the product? So what was inside the bottle was stunning, but then how did you conquer the packaging problem? Because presumably once you'd got it into your hotel or your pub, I. You then realized it was getting popular and was it very much like the Chanel number five?

She just sprayed it for her few clients and then people ask her what it was and wanted to start to buy it. Did you have pub guests going, how do I take this home with me? Is that where you start to expand? 

Chloe: Yeah, so it literally, I called in the favors for the packaging and I think I was still at work when they were opening the pub, say I had my friend labeling the bottles for me to put them in the rooms and everything,and then when it opened, I think the really key moment for me where I was like, wow, is when I was sitting in the pub with friends or whatever and a man would come outta the bathroom like that sort of smelling his hands.

A, I was like, wow. They actually do wash their [00:05:00] hands, which is great. But equally, I was just like, if a man is. A sort of, doing that to smell his hands, that's a really good thing, because, traditionally it's more sort of female thing, the sort of whole fragrancing. So yeah, so that's when I was really like, wow, okay, I've created, I think something that is, and I really wanted it to be unisex as well.

I didn't want it to be just for women. So that was a great moment. Yeah. And then also because Charlie was working all hours in the pub, because obviously it was his baby, and because it had guests, people staying the night, it's 24 hour a day business, so he was always working.

And so on the weekends I used to go and sell it at market stalls. So there was this market called the Anonymous Traveling Market. It used to pop up once a month in different villages around the area. And I didn't really know many people in the area at that time and I hadn't had children and I used to just go to these markets and set up with my stool and then be like chatting to people and it was always really good with the hand cream because I could squirt them, can you, would you like to try my hand cream? And they'd all [00:06:00] try it. and actually still to this day when we're at Chelsea Flower Show, we are still like, 'would you like to try a hand cream?'

And people walk off and then they. smell it and then, generally, they come back and then they buy it. So for me, I think also it was just a really good opportunity at the pub to get people to try the products for free. And then hopefully have this amazing sort of connection with the products or, if they're staying the night, they were having like an amazing time with their lover or their, their new husband or their girlfriends, whatever.

And they'd come away and they'd use the products and there's such a connection between smell and memory.

Juliet: Isn't it the sense that's most linked to memory? So I can smell a certain brand of cigarettes and it takes me right back to being five. My grandmother and my grandmother probably should not have been smoking around a

5-year-old, but.

But it takes you straight back and it's such an incredible thing. And, this is again, why I love podcasts.

It's like when you are listening to something, it's different when you are seeing something and your audio sense is so strong compared to your visual sense. So the sense of smell is linked to memory. So people would have a lovely weekend away and then want to take that [00:07:00] memory home with them.

Chloe: Exactly, and yeah, so that's been great for us.

Juliet: So you went from the pub sampling or providing your guests with a lovely. Amen to then sampling at the markets, and then after that, where did it go next?

Chloe: Because Charlie had been in the hospitality, sector, people would come down and stay, like your friends would come and stay and see us, 'cause obviously we've moved to the country and 16 years ago, there were still quite a few people who were in London. I know the guys, Adam and Clive who had a riding house, cafe, they came down, they were one of our first sort of, external customers and they said, 'oh, I love this hand wash and hand cream, can we have it in our cafe or in our restaurant?' And I was like, 'okay, yeah, let's you know, why not?' and so then it just grew really organically from there. and yeah, yeah, trade just went sort of year on year.

It just went up and up. 

Juliet: With that growth, going back to the packaging problem, 'cause I know a lot of brands that I've, Necessaire I spoke to, and a few other beauty brands who are really trying to champion the sustainability factor. But in beauty, it's Difficult because packaging and [00:08:00] then shipping, obviously, none of us are perfect, but we are trying to be better as a B Corp.

But,did it take a lot of research to find the right packaging? Like where did you start?

Chloe: You know what? part of the joy of, starting Bramley is that I had no time. So we moved out, we got married in the May, and then Charlie opened the pub in the July. So I literally, I didn't have time sit down and think about lots of those things and maybe.

I would've done it differently if I had, but who knows? so I literally just had to get stock items. So I knew that there was this bottle that I could use and the caps and the labels. So I knew all the label suppliers and everything, so -

Juliet: that would fit with your sustainability?

Chloe: Yes, so I went with easily recyclable rather than, at the time, there wasn't really anything that was recycled bottle wise, but I knew that the HDPE, which is the plastic we use in our bottles, was easily recyclable and it was compatible with the essential oils as well, because you have to be really careful with essential oils that, they don't leach into the plastic and make it all brittle and, horrid things.

Juliet: The lids are the hardest part, aren't they? To [00:09:00] get a recyclable and a recycled lid. 

Chloe: Yes,the worst things are the pumps because the pumps have so many different components and inevitably they're different plastics and they have a spring in them, like a metal spring. So it's really hard and they're really hard to pull apart. and I think even though one of our pumps that we have is a hundred percent recyclable, no, recycling center in the UK will actually recycle it because they just assume it isn't recyclable, which is such a shame. So for us, I've always tried to make sure that everything is easily recyclable. and then always early on we have sold, the five liters. You can buy the five liters on our website.

We also do one liters, which are great for sort of family bathrooms. That's what we have upstairs. and then also I was looking for ages and ages to find a really nice, sustainable refill pouch,those the pouches that you get because so many brands do the pouches, and they say they're 80% less plastic.

They are 80% less plastic, but that [00:10:00] plastic that they use is actually the worst type of plastic to recycle that sort of really thin plastic. So I was just like, I can't even compromise, and then they have a spout that you have to cut off and, it was just such a barrier for customers. To use that.

So, I then read this article on, on a newsletter that came through that was about this company who had created this compostable refill pouch, which is just phenomenal. So, that's the one we use now and actually that's probably one of the fastest growing areas of our company are the compostable refill pouches, which are just brilliant.

You just fill up and then you just chuck it on your compost and it will decompose within 37 weeks I think it is.

Juliet: That's incredible.

Chloe: Yeah, so it's always trying to think about what is the next thing, and you know, I was talking to another company about other things that we can do anyway. Yeah, I can go on and on.

Juliet: No, it is great though. But I was gonna say, as a founder, and what's so interesting, you said what was good, you didn't have time. Like I spend every day questioning how I'm spending my time. 'Cause time is the most valuable resource. And I think [00:11:00] I say that on every podcast. Money comes and goes. People come and go.

Clients come and go. It's natural, but time is finite. you think you made a rod for your own back with this sustainable lens on your brand? Do you think you've made more work for yourself? And if so, do you think it was worth it?

Chloe: Potentially yes, because, there are other things that I think, gosh, I love that shape of that bottle all, but then 

Because that's our sort of ethos and Bramley is very much rooted in sustainability. So, it makes it easier in a way because you are actually guided by your sustainability ethos so it means that you just have to choose the 

greener way 

So actually it does help probably.

Juliet: What would you suggest for new founders who are putting their toe into the water or setting up a brand or product-based brand? What would they do first when they're looking at their sustainability values?

Chloe: Yeah, just always look at what the container's made of, it's another bug bear of mine because, glass is obviously, and aluminum are really easily recyclable and they [00:12:00] have a value to them, so they definitely are always recycled.

Whereas plastic obviously is less valuable. But then glass and aluminum, it is like a higher. carbon footprint to actually produce the products themselves. So I don't know. slightly you're damned if you don't, damned if you do, but I think if you believe that for you and for your brand, you're making the right sort of greener choice, I think that's all you can do 

Juliet: And how have you got all of this knowledge about what's sustainable and what's not?

Chloe: Yeah, I don't know. I guess I've always had an interest in it and so I've always just been aware of it and I think the more you suddenly think about it, and if you really do want to have a sustainable, you suddenly you question everything and 

 for me, I think a lot more people are looking at how packaging, especially 'cause we order so much online, I think people really look at how something arrives. and whether it's in a plastic or whether the plastic's biodegradable and everything, but I dunno if there is any sort of one resource that you can go to, to, to find out all of that

Juliet: Natural curiosity is so interesting, 'cause I [00:13:00] think a lot of people say when you work this hard in your own business, you have to be so almost eluded that your business is gonna succeed. But you need that drive and that passion to keep going. And, we both run B Corp businesses. how long have you been a B Corp for?

Chloe: our B Corp journey, I feel has been going on for years 

Juliet: Yeah. It's a feral thing to get done. Yeah. Especially as a product based business.

Chloe: Yeah. And also I really wanted it, I was like back in 2021 I think I started the conversation internally, it's a lot of hard work, and someone to actually take ownership of it.

And the first time we did it, I think I was in charge and we failed. So we failed last January. and then I tasked Scarlet in my team and she is brilliant. and we passed in November. 

Juliet: Amazing, congratulations!

Chloe: Thank you, How long have you been?

Juliet: We have been, I think two and a half years. 

I. 

Chloe: oh gosh. So you're coming up to the new, 

Juliet: Yes. And I was gonna ask with B Corp 'cause [00:14:00] I very much had a bit of a backlash, the B Corp backlash I call it, of people going, you are a small business, you are a service-based business. Why would you bother? And I was retorted in, I mean I have an older brother and this is tends to be my reaction of 98% of the UK economy is small to medium enterprises and 78% of those are service based.

So if we all became a equal, we'd all be better off. But, it's getting a lot of flack in the press because there are brands like Evian and Nespresso who are B Corp, and when you do the digging you can see why they've become certified and they have earned it and they do a lot of regenerative good work.

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Juliet: But for you, would you recommend B Corp for brands? Have you seen your customers engage with it?

Chloe: Yeah, it's a funny one because,I think we did B-Corp. 'cause I know in my heart that we've been doing the right thing and we do it sustainably and everything. Everything we do is. is is to do good, but actually it was just a really good,checklist, to go through and just it holds you accountable as a business.

and there were areas that we were not, doing very well in. so obviously all of the packaging and everything was great. but for us, because we'd grown, you know, relatively slowly, but organically with the people. We weren't necessarily doing all the right things there because, it had been, set up in a different way and more hr like, like just all of that sort of the people side of things.

We really made some changes to us and we do volunteer days and, it just, it was just, it was really nice to do, things like that. 

Juliet: I found the framework of it 'cause I did it because I, I was like, who am I to start a business? I started overnight off the back of [00:16:00] redundancy. I wanted a big brother pat on the back to be like, yes, you are legitimate. You are doing the right things and you are practicing what you preach. I felt like that certification was something bigger than my small business to tell the world.

This is a genuine mission that but for the, you are right. The people part is fascinating. All the policies and all the templates 

Chloe: yes, the breastfeeding

Juliet: Breastfeeding policy! And I was like, in a coworking office, how does that work? And then, I did laugh that we got points, for our middle management tier for being women.

I was like, I'm in communications. I should get points for employing men in communications, not women. And it's not perfect and B Corp will be the first to admit they're not perfect yet, but we are just trying to be better. For you, is it important to your team as well to be certified?

Chloe: yeah, I think it is actually. there was quite a lot of communication 'cause a lot of them didn't know what it was, but now they're fully behind it. And also for us, from a business point of view, we went to a trade show in Paris in January and it's universal. So you had the B Corp logo and the people are like, oh, okay, now I get what you are and who [00:17:00] you are.

 And I think it is very, I think B Corp's a massive movement or bigger movement in the UK than anywhere else. But I think hopefully other countries will look at us and see how it's done.

Because then it will become ideally we want everyone in the whole world globally to B Corp because we all should be putting people and planet before profit. Although I keep saying people and profit before planet when I'm talking about it.

Juliet: that's it. I think for anyone listening that doesn't understand B Corp, you can't be a charity to be a B Corp. You have to be a business that makes a profit because obviously the more successful your business is, the more you can then help people and planet. But profit is, there's no shame in that, you are striving to have a successful business and with that, given your product is beautiful and luxurious, have you felt that sustainability, or your sustainability values, have compromised that luxury offering in any way, or is actually, it's just made it better? Because your packaging is beautiful. You just want to cut it up and make it into a gift card. It's so stunning. 

Chloe: What we do is that we try and use again, like I was saying, sustainability. We just [00:18:00] because it's in us, we then think of other ways that we can turn our packaging into, Yeah. As you say, Christmas or our Christmas sets had like lines that you cut out and 

turn it into a gift tag.  this year, the ball has, and we've done it before where you have the ribbon, but that's like an elastic hair tie, and our, what we call the Bramley village, our sort of beautiful gift sets which weredrawn by Sus Taylor.

 are all just for people to keep or hand on to their, their children to play with and stuff. So I think we just hopefully play it to our advantage, really. but yeah, we don't have extra boxes where we don't need them 

the hand wash doesn't need a box because that's just a little too much added sort of luxury. 

a waste really.

Juliet: Bringing it back to the brand, given that you're 16 years in and I've seen you for years and years in beautiful places around the country. is your ambition to take the brand next?

Chloe: We've been really lucky with our partners. I think the first partnership thatreally helped elevate us was with The Pig Hotels, which is, was brilliant. 

Juliet: How did you [00:19:00] broker that 'cause I know a lot of brands desperate to get in with The Pig Group.

Chloe: Well, the first one that they opened, I think it was in 2011 in the New Forest. That was not too far from us. And I just had my son, maybe it was 2010, I should know, when he was born, 2011,and I had him in the May and we all thought, gosh, we're gonna get away, having babies is not gonna change us.

We are just gonna do what we want. And so we went, and I think he always slept in the bath 'cause we were like, we're going to go to the new pig that's opened. and we went along and it was, beautiful. And everything was lovely. The menu was 25 miles, everything within 25 miles.

and then I went into the shower and I was like, oh my goodness, what's this? And it was this, a product called Sprout out. And I could see the sort whole kitchen garden. You could see the sprouts. you could see where they'd gone with it. But I looked on the back and it was. Made in the US or something and I was like, oh my goodness, this is just what an opportunity for us. 

So, off brand for them. And quite often amenities, the stuff they put in the rooms is the last thing that hotels think about, I got in touch with Robin and said, look, [00:20:00] you need to have Bramley in your rooms.

And he has been like a massive support. 

Juliet: You don't ask, you don't get. 

Chloe: If you don't ask you don't get, exactly.

Juliet: I think definitely becoming self-employed and you've come from a big brand, i've come from big brands where you are sheltered and you're protected somewhat, but suddenly you are out on your own and if you don't put your hand up, no one's gonna ask you if you're okay or what you need, or I had a bit of a imposter moment yesterday and I'm learning, I'm trying to practice a imposter experience,

not syndrome. 

But it's not a syndrome. You cannot be diagnosed with imposter because it's just a feeling it will pass. And Hamish Mackay Lewis did an episode on a whole of imposter thing in Founder Land, and it's one of our most downloaded episodes.

Chloe: yeah, I'll have a listen.

Juliet: He's fantastic And

Anyway, so yesterday I was looking at, I think it was Laura Jackson, who I've admired for a long time with Glassette and there were a couple other female founders like. I can't do that. For some reason, I have been quite bullish in the last few years, but for some reason yesterday I was like, oh no,I can't message 'em.

They're like, what's the [00:21:00] worst that's gonna happen? You message 'em. They don't reply. So what you try, that kind of, putting yourself out there and making yourself very vulnerable, the sooner you can get more comfortable with that, the better, because in founder world, that's all you do. 

Except that 90% of the time you're gonna fail, and that's normal. 

Chloe: did they get back to you?

Juliet: Not yet. And I'm learning to say yet quite a lot. 'Cause I, you do have to also celebrate those small wins, 'cause I interviewed the, it was actually the episode after Hamish was, head of neuroscience at Oxford University about sleep. And I was like. Oh my God, who am I to be asking him questions?

And he was the nicest man on the planet. In fact, now I've moved up here, I need to go for tea.. but it was one of those things where you pinch yourself again, like just ask. So for you, in the evolution of Bramley, have there been some real moments where you've just gone, 'oh my God, I wish I hadn't done that'?

Chloe: Yeah. That's interesting, because we've been such a sort of, organic, and it has, we haven't got investors or anything, we've never taken any external investment. So I think that actually [00:22:00] helps with the sort of whole like,how I feel, and maybe I should put myself out there a bit more, but there's nothing really that has made me feel uncomfortable because I haven't had to.

there are little things like, doing things like this always make you feel slightly like, 

Juliet: you're having to put your face and voice ahead of the brand. Whereas 

normally when you work for the business is the brand and you are fueling it where suddenly your front and center like, I completely get what you mean. It's and everyone eye rolls say, oh, you do a podcast. I was like, it does really well.

It's actually quite good. but are there any sort of clangers that you could advise other founders to avoid?

Chloe: No, I think actually I found, and definitely more recently that actually putting yourself out there and also there's quite a big movement in the female founders side of things,

 but it does feel slightly unfair because to the men at this point, because there's loads going on in the female founder space, and especially there's, I dunno if you've come across as community called By Women Built

 set up by Sahar Hashemi who started [00:23:00] Coffee Republic.

 And years ago I read her book, how to be an entrepreneur And anyway, she has done this amazing thing for, female founders, which is of product services. So it's quite niche.

 I think it will probably be extended out into services as well and everything, and it is basically four female founders and I think there's about, maybe 3000 now on that sort of community, and it's just such a lovely space to share. advice, tips and everything. I actually think it's a really nicetime for female founders and hopefully for male founders.

But, I think there's something statistic like for every pound spent invested in companies. Only two p of that pound is invested in female founded companies.

Juliet: 0.05% in black female founders and 250 billion will be added to economy if more women were encouraged to start businesses at the same rate of men. It's the 

Alison Rose, review that. I see a lot of people quote saying that women create more empathetic community led businesses, [00:24:00] and actually our whole economy, everyone in the country will be better off if women start businesses at the same rate as men. So is there anything you would want to say to a future female founder about starting a business or a brand?

Chloe: I would just say, oh, obviously it goes for any founder, but sort of know your, customer. I started branding knowing that the Beckford arms was my customer, so I could, Literally, if it all else failed, I had a customer, andI could just quietly get rid of it through the pub if I needed to.

but I think it's really important to know your customer and actually the product is so important. and so no matter how big and beautiful it looks like on the outside, the actual product on the inside really has to work 'cause that's what people will come back to and buy again.

Juliet: so interesting you say that.a lot of people say that with podcasting. They say, oh, how do I grow my podcast? Like, how many more Instagram reels should I do? I'm like, just make the conversation really good.

So when people listen to it, they want to [00:25:00] share it. That's. All you need to do. Yes. Instagram, yes, LinkedIn. And when we produce podcasts with clients are like, we can halo effect it and really help support it with those. But if you make the conversation in the podcast, excellent, that is all you need to do.

Chloe: Exactly. Just make sure the product itself is just beautiful and will speak for itself really, and then I always do say, go for it. Because for me it's just been such an amazing journey and it's just been, especially, I think as a mother it's been really freeing and Yeah. Amazing. Really, I don't regret it ever for a moment.

Juliet: What would you say are the biggest highs and the biggest lows in being your own boss?

Chloe: So the highs are the freedom, again, going back to that, I am very much an advocate and I've got quite a sort of strong female team, around me and I always say, have the freedom to be able to go to your children's sports days or assembly or whatever

that's really important because fundamentally that's what matters in life. Hand wash will always be there and, [00:26:00] you can always get back to emails. And the, so the high for me is having, a strong team around me, having built a team. I love all of that, and then the lows of being a founder is quite lonely sometimes.

I do have a business partner who helps, but equally, when you are, I think in any role, everyone looks to you, as the founder, everyone looks to you and you're like, I don't know the answer to, you know, everything. 

Juliet: How do you manage that? how do you keep on top of that,

Chloe: I think you still just have to go back to your roots and take a moment and think, what is right? and gut, I think gut is a massive thing for me. Does it feel right? Does it not feel right? 

Juliet: How do you manage the loneliness? Like how do you manage that isolation? 

Chloe: Well, again, yeah, that is real.

And actually about going back again to this female founder, for Through by Women Built and and just through the journey of meeting people, at different events and stuff. I hate networking events really, but actually I've come to enjoy them more. You actually, it's just having that connection with other [00:27:00] female founders and just talking it through and just saying, I've got this issue. Or just, being able to WhatsApp or message and say, what do we do here? So actually I think that's really helpful. And then talking to, my husband and female friends and it's just about sharing it.

that old age old a problem shared is a problem halfed is so true.

Juliet: It really is. And even if it's a friend, so I use coworking offices for this reason, 'cause you can just ask someone who's sitting opposite you, who knows nothing about your business or you saying, I've got this VAT question, do you know anything about? And they might know the answer. And you just build that bond and that relationship with them.

And everyone's has a different perspective. I've actually seen it mirror. I've moved house recently, so renovations, I am clueless. I've never done it before. So anyone that comes to stay has a different idea and I'm like, oh yeah. Flip that door into that room and dah, dah, dah, and they see things differently.

So getting it out there, and this is where the podcast came from. You put your hand up and ask for help, and you ask a ton of questions, people will give you answers. But that isolation thing, I think people don't talk about enough. And I managed [00:28:00] to pick a craft, podcasting, that tends to be one way. You put a lot of content out, you don't get the feedback immediately.

It's not like a live audience. So if anybody's listening as an enjoying this conversation, please rate review the podcast because otherwise.

That's also funny, you can see the download numbers, but you're just like, who even are you? Because this data's so protected in podcasting. But yeah, the, any other lows that you'd highlight?

Chloe: in general of being a founder?

Juliet: Yeah.

Chloe: No, I just think actually it is apart from yeah, the sort of, everything's on you, obviously that is slight pressure. that if everything went wrong tomorrow, it's you've got people, we've got a team of 20 and they're sort of all reliant on you.

But I try not to focus too much on that because then I think you literally would be like panic mode. So, no I think actuallyit's a really liberating thing to do. Yeah, I'd highly recommend it.

Juliet: Excellent. And we have a question from our previous guest who asked if you could turn back time, what would you do differently?

Chloe: Yes. I was [00:29:00] thinking about this and I actually think, I'm really lucky that, that, that hindsight is a beautiful thing. I think I didn't realize at the time when I started that what Bramley would become. So I'm actually quite relieved that you can't see in the future or, if I could turn back a time, what would I have done differently?

Maybe I'd have chosen a different bottle, but that's about it.

And now our bottle is in every single, it's in brackets in lots of pubs. So you, we can't really change the bottle because, people have invested into the brackets and sometimes I think, oh gosh, I'd love to have a different sort of shape bottle, but at the time, it is what it is and it's worked brilliantly for us.

Juliet: Well, I like what you said also about this sort of slow growth, the trajectory. Go in all guns blazing. You haven't taken investment, and I think a lot of people, again, in that co-working office I mentioned is you need to get investment beat your chest. And it's like, well no. 'cause then I have a different boss and someone else owns my business.

Chloe: Thanks. I'd rather keep it private. And I think there's a lot of bragging rights around How much did you raise? It's [00:30:00] like, well, you don't have raise. You're doing a pretty good job. And I think we are lucky. And then lots of people I have spoken to actually who do have investment are like, just don't go there. if you get a bad one or you have a terrible relationship, it could completely destroy your, your soul in a way, your everyday life would become accountable and, I'm not saying that we will never take investment because potentially we will if we want to grow, but I just would be very careful, I think about who we went with.

Juliet: And what would your question be for our next guest?

 it's Rachel Harris, who's the Accountant She on Instagram who's now just appointed stylist, first financial columnist, and she does amazing content for business owners

Chloe: Oh my God. I do need to follow her What I quite like is,does she have any sort of saying or quote that she lives by or thatsort of really resonates with her?

Like I always think find a job that you love and then you'll never work a day in your life. Because that for me is how I feel.

Juliet: yeah. That's it. When you are drawn, I'm such a nerd. [00:31:00] I, when I know it's a podcast editing day, I'm like, yes, get me to my desk. And then same with accountants. I actually weirdly love my numbers and doing all those, 'cause in PR and podcasting, you don't really get access to numbers that often. So it's quite fun.

But I think when you find that flow state and you get in the zone of that piece of work that you love, you want to do it, and then you have to learn to boundary yourself and switch off and have downtime outside of work. But it's a nice problem to have that you're going to work and you love it.

That's brilliant. 

Chloe: And then it isn't work, so it's a win-win.

Juliet: It's a joy. Thank you so much, Chloe. It's been wonderful chatting to you. 

Chloe: It's been lovely to meet you. Thank you.

Juliet: If you'd like to contact Chloë, you can find all of her details in the show notes along with a recap of the advice that she has so kindly shared.

And tune in next week to hear Rachel Harris, founder of Strive X and Accountant She to answer Chloë's question on her favorite expression.