How to manage a portfolio career, The Women's Chapter, Michelle de Klerk

Today we’re joined by the brilliant Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk, founder of The Women’s Chapter, the UK’s first network for women in business to achieve B Corp certification.

Michelle’s journey is an extraordinary example of how a passion project, started on a shoestring as a side hustle, can evolve into a thriving, impact-led portfolio career. 

Since launching in 2014, The Women’s Chapter has reached more than 30,000 women through events, thought leadership, membership and pro bono initiatives. Michelle also champions women and girls beyond the community through her work as an ambassador for The King’s Trust Women Supporting Women, a UN Women UK delegate and a council member for Founders4Schools and Maths4Girls.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• Why a portfolio career is an asset, not a failing, and how to recognise the skills you’ve built across different areas of work
 • How to decide whether your passion project should stay a passion or become a commercial venture
 • Why community isn’t a “nice to have” but a biological, emotional and strategic necessity
 • How small businesses can use sustainability frameworks to drive meaningful impact, even without formal certification
 • What Michelle learned from becoming unexpectedly financially exposed and how founders can protect themselves
 • Practical ways to combat imposter syndrome using evidence-based techniques
 • Why connection lowers cortisol, boosts leadership ability and helps founders make better decisions
 • How niching down and staying in your lane creates focus, momentum and clarity
 • The role of conversation as a catalyst for collaboration and change

 • Networking is a form of self care

FF&M enables you to own your own PR & produces podcasts.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2024 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

FF&M recommends: 

• LastPass the password-keeping site that syncs between devices.
• Google Workspace is brilliant for small businesses
• Buzzsprout podcast 'how to' & hosting directory
• Canva has proved invaluable for creating all the social media assets and audio bites.

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod.  Link &  Licence

Transcript

Speaker: [00:00:00] Today we're joined by the brilliant Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk, founder of the Women's Chapter, the UK's First Network for Women in Business to Achieve B Corp certification. Michelle's journey is an extraordinary example of how a passion project started on a shoestring. 

 Since launching in 2014, the women's chapter has reached more than 30,000 women through events, thought leadership, membership, and pro bono initiatives.

Keep listening as to why a portfolio career is nothing to be ashamed of. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Hi Michelle. Thank you so much for joining. How to start up today we are gonna be talking all things portfolio careers, so it'd be wonderful if you could kick off with a bit about yourself, the businesses that you've run, and a bit about your background in, in

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: thank you so much, Juliet. I'm really honored to be here and great that I get to talk about portfolio careers because caveat, or I guess disclaimer, this is something that for a really long time I felt very. Ashamed of, I thought it meant that I didn't know what I [00:01:00] wanted to do. And further down the line, I've come to realize that actually everything that I have done in my very non-linear career has afforded me the skills that I have needed. I guess continue to build on, to run the businesses and do the things that I love and drive impact in the way that I do. So thank you very much. But, by way of introduction, I am the founder of the Women's Chapter, which is a B Corp Certified Movement and Community for women in business, both professionals and entrepreneurs. I believe in the power of bringing together women from. Cross sectors, to collaborate, to troubleshoot, support one another. So we are a non-transactional community first, which is really important . but I have had many past lives and many of them actually still can run concurrently with the women's chapter because it started as a passion project and then became a business. But my background is that I was supposed to be a lawyer. So I did a [00:02:00] business law degree, and then when it came to going on and actually doing my articles, I was like, I'm not sure if I fancy that. And so I did a postgraduate in media studies and communications, and I went to work for a hard news title,as an intern initially.

But I think within my first three weeks I had a front page spread, and realized that actually. I was quite good at that. really loved the chase, but also loved the communication side of it, the storytelling, the connection, and, so unexpectedly. I went on to be a hard news journalist, We were quite a small team, which is really great when you're just starting out as a journalist because you get to get your teeth into everything. but again, I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to be a business journalist or or a drama journalist or a travel journalist, but actually I got to do a bit of everything, which has stood me in really good stead for the work that I do today. So when I moved to the UK after a stint teaching English in Taiwan, which turned out [00:03:00] to not be a viable career path for me.

I'm not a very good teacher. And so I will admit that and

Juliet Fallowfield: It's good to know your strengths and your weaknesses. Yeah.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I really hated it. Um, I wasn't good at it. 

great, obviously for travel, but that was also in the midst of SARS breaking out.

So I had a kind of. COVID type experience, which was really interesting obviously many years ago. came back, to South Africa with my tail between my legs, had to ask for my job back,

And then from there, got everything together to essentially move to the uk. So I came to the uk, in my late twenties. I was gonna be a journalist. little did I realize that I, wasn't gonna be given a job. I could have an unpaid job where I could work the graveyard shift at Broadsheet, but I wasn't gonna get a paid journalism job 'cause I had no UK experience, understandably so. And so I then landed up working in financial services first as a pa and then I worked my way into the marketing department and actually the company that I worked for, Was owned by a holding company [00:04:00] that also owned Business Week. So my plan was I'll get a job there, I'll make some connections, and then I'll work. For business week, but actually what happened was I landed up working for one of their other titles in commodities. I spent five years working in commodities pricing, copper and aluminum, writing market commentary essentially. again, really interesting. Lots of chat, lots of human connection, I absolutely loved it. I realized that I either needed to go on and trade and make more money, or I needed to do something completely different. And I took an unpaid internship at The Telegraph. So I had a friend who had a friend and she said, oh, I've got a connection on the, the personal finance desk and actually they're looking for an intern for a couple of weeks. And I was like, do you know, I've got some holiday to take? I'll do that. And that's actually how I got my in with newspapers, in the UK because I went and pitched a travel story to the travel editor at the time while I was there. I was like, right, [00:05:00] I'm in the door, I'm on the floor. I'm gonna go and pitch. And also the personal finance editor for your money realized that I could write. So I opened post for a couple of days and then he gave me some things to write and so I carried on writing for them and I carried on doing travel stuff.

But then it was from there that I moved into luxury marketing because. on the back of a piece I had written that included a hotel group that I knew from back home, who had a London office. They invited me in and to say thank you for their three page spread in telegraph. And I left with a job offer to be their marketing director.

Juliet Fallowfield: So there was curiosity there. You were tempted to try new things and putting your hat into the ring and that kind of leapfrogging, you weren't giving up on things, but you were teeing things up for the future.

But for you, I want to go back to that thing that you said about feeling embarrassed and there was a shame attached to not really knowing what you wanted to do because I am exactly the same. 

 why do you feel there's a shame attached to it?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I think it goes back to that fear of it appearing that you [00:06:00] dunno what you want to do or that you can't stick with something.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, the commitment, you're not focused, but also you make your life harder for yourself. I know I'm a jack of all trades and a master of a few as well, but I'm making my career harder for myself by not sticking to one lane in one sector and one trade.

Do you feel the same?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I might have in the past, but actually I love embracing now this knowledge that, that we are not one dimensional.

Juliet Fallowfield: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: as human beings, we are multifaceted. And so why should we pick one career path? Why should we be defined as one thing? 

Juliet Fallowfield: It also gets boring. You see the same job for 20 years, you're gonna burn out, get bored, or wanna do something else.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Totally, and I think for me, and I dunno really when it happened, but there was this sense of giving myself permission to really embrace this constellation style of how I work, how my brain works, how I [00:07:00] connect. People. And that's one of our superpowers actually. And I wish I had known that when I was younger, but I think obviously, I'm also, I'm 48. with your age comes confidence and you get more and more comfortable with what you're good at, and then you outsource the things that you're not. And for me, that calm, confidence and peace around my portfolio career, I think probably only came. When I turned 40, 'cause I stopped caring so much and I don't have a cv, but I think one of the challenges, if you try to put all of that onto a cv, it would be really awkward and you'd be like, wow,

Juliet Fallowfield: But also People don't want to understand it either. They don't want to believe that you can actually achieve all of that. And I've sort of been accused, it's like, well, what do you mean, press in New York, Sydney and London. You can't have, I was like, well, I lived in all three places.

Like, but on your own. It's like, yes, but people don't like. The challenge of believing that you are capable of doing all of those things and doing well. [00:08:00] But what you said, your superpower, that connection. I really love you saying that because I'm doing a course this year on purpose because I thought if I'm gonna work this hard, I wanna make sure I'm doing the right work in the right place.

And I think I've untapped that kind of dot connecting thing of, oh, that person's got that problem. I think that person kind of over there help them. If you are across multiple sectors in multiple industries and with multiple jobs, you've got that network that can help and connect really beautifully.

. There's nothing more I love than doing that kind of jigsaw puzzle of people. Is that the similar thing for you?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Absolutely. I get such a buzz when those light bulbs go off.

 and I realize that not everybody can do that. Like I really thought everybody could. It is something that not everybody can tap into. Oh, I remember so and so said they needed help here. Or when I curate an event or a gathering for the women's chapter now, people always leave having met [00:09:00] someone they felt they were meant to meet.

And 

Juliet Fallowfield: Was this realization what led you to create Women's Chapter?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: In part, I was running a lot of private client events through my luxury hospitality work, collaborating with luxury brands. So that kind of collaboration community piece was really important. And as part of these private client events that I ran, there were a lot of women that were coming to them. I was standing and watching how they were connecting. Those sparks were flying. And they didn't know each other, and London. It's quite a small place, but when you mix the sectors and industries, it's not really, and in those days LinkedIn was just really gaining traction.

 people weren't as accessible as they are now. And so I loved seeing these. Sparks collaboration. People saying, oh, he's gonna have a coffee. And then from there they were investing in each other's businesses or becoming non-exec directors for one another, or just forging friendships. [00:10:00] And I really get such a buzz and a reward from that.

I still do. So it's a very big part of me using something that I didn't know was special, but knowing that you need to meet so and so. Because at the very least you are going to hit it off and be amazing friends and have loads in common, but actually in your, per in your professional careers, there may be something really magical in store

Juliet Fallowfield: And you never regret a conversation. And I think so many, I think it's something like 98% of the UK's economy is a small to medium enterprise, and 78% of that is a service based business. So. The amount of conversations. I often look at people on public transport and think, I wonder where they work or what they do and who they've met and what conversation has given them joy, that then leads to another connection and that is how business is done.

Yes, we all work on laptops and yes, we're far too much on our screens in Excel, but it's those magical conversations that you have that lead to an idea [00:11:00] that creates something that then gives you job satisfaction and blah, blah, blah, blah. The rest is history.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: You are absolutely speaking my language. Every year around International Women's Day, there are always these posts on LinkedIn about, so tired of hearing everybody talking about all the things we need to do. talk. Actually, I disagree because conversations lead to connection.

Connection leads to collaboration, and collaboration leads to change. We do need to have the conversations, make the noise talk to each other in order to come together and have that meeting of minds where we can drive change together. So underestimating that power of a conversation and how it leads to a connection or a spark. How that fits into that change chain reaction is really important. it's, it's so simple when you think about it.

Juliet Fallowfield: It's everything for sure. So if somebody's listening and they're thinking, God, I've got my day job and then I've got my side hustle and I've got this passion project, and I've got this idea for something else, it can [00:12:00] feel slightly overwhelming. what advice would you give them to manage that overwhelm?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I think it depends on, overwhelm around having multiple passions and projects and getting energy from all of them and understanding how to prioritize your time. I don't think there's one solution. I do really believe in niching down. So I think you can have a portfolio career and you can do multiple things, but you do need to. Have hyper focus within those channels. And also ask yourself the question whether or not, if you're struggling with this idea, do I take something that I'm really passionate about my passion project and turn it into a business so, side hustle to main hustle,I would encourage people to ask the question. Will it erode the joy that I get from this if I make it commercial? Because something I have learned along the way is that and in many ways it's a regret, the women's chapter would have been way bigger, way more impactful if I had got out of my own way [00:13:00] much earlier on. And this obviously brings in imposter syndrome, et cetera. If I'd got out of my own way and actually invested in it and believed in the power of it, because I knew it held power, but I wasn't sure anybody else would believe me. And why would they believe me? Because, I'd done so many things

Juliet Fallowfield: so I do really wish that I had paid attention more that I had drilled down into the details that I had made at commercial sooner because. More commercial we've become in that the more profit we've become as an organization, the more impact we can drive.

This is a, the whole premise of B Corp. You have to be company, not a charity, and you have to put. People and planet above profit. But you have to have profit to be able to do that. But the imposter syndrome thing, how do you manage yours?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I keep a catalog of success,

Juliet Fallowfield: Ah.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: my definition of success, so the things that. I feel proud of, our achievements, [00:14:00] and I try to, I write them down. I have them on notes on my phone. because in times of, low confidence, low energy, this time of year everybody's feeling.

Juliet Fallowfield: You get sick? Yeah.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Like they've just run out of steam.

We need to remember how far we've come, and I think particularly women are not very good at this because we don't stop often enough to really give ourselves credit for how far we've come, how much we've achieved, how much impact we've driven. And when you catalog those little successes, even if it is just a little bullet point or something that you feel proud of or that makes you feel great, or stick it up on your notice board in your office. It can remind you because it's evidence-based

Juliet Fallowfield: It is, it's fact.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: yeah, when we are ruminating, when we feel anxious, when you know, and particularly in midlife, so many women are dealing with the whole biological, phenomenon of perimenopause and how that impacts your confidence [00:15:00] and your body. It's really important to have evidence based. Facts that you can go back to and go, okay, hang on a second. I may be feeling really awful in this moment, but look at that. Look at what I've done, what I've achieved,

how capable I am,

Juliet Fallowfield: it takes you out of yourself, doesn't it? It makes it bigger than you, and your business is bigger than you. You work for a company, it's, it isn't you. You aren't it. You have to keep the two a little bit separate.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: And the other thing around imposter syndrome or just a tool that I use a lot to manage my confidence, my desire to. Over deliver is to focus on the things that I can control. And I have to remind myself of that often.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. Exactly, and in the last 10 years of you doing the women's chapter, you will have gone through many cycles in the country. And a lot of friends this year have said, God, business is really tough. It's worse than last year, which I didn't expect. It's but the world has fallen apart numerous times.

There's nothing you can do about that. You, if you can keep your head above [00:16:00] water and keep going. Great, but you can't beat yourself up for things you can't control because It's a waste of energy. And energy is everything. You need the fuel to keep going.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: and I think with the women's chapter, going back to my piece on wishing that I had done something sooner and I have to say that I was pushed to take it seriously rather than it was an actual choice that I made.

So for a very long time, I was very comfortable running my passion project. and. In 2019, just before everything with COVID happened, my, marriage broke down very suddenly and very unexpectedly, and I found myself financially exposed completely. and I had to look at my career, my income. I had to think about what am I gonna do. I don't have contingency plans anymore. I am the plan. So I have to really think about where do I invest my time and how [00:17:00] do I do something that I love, but I make sure that it can pay my bills. And just like when I started the women's chapter kind of full time, I'd been made redundant. So I got given a kick, which I think so many business owners, particularly those that stop businesses

later in life that you know, that's the kick they get.

Juliet Fallowfield: Me included. you get pushed and you have no choice. Someone's you are very brave. Starting a business in lockdown, it's I don't have a job. There's no choice.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Yeah. But actually that's where the, those of us that have this entrepreneurial spirit, which is often what drives our spectrum of interests.

and how we get pulled into multiple projects is because we are hardwired to see opportunity. Um.

Juliet Fallowfield: it makes you laser focused on profit as well because there is no backstop. Your mortgage payments that can continue to go out, whether you like it or not, and you have no salary. You suddenly get very good on the detail of what matters and where you're gonna find that revenue, which I don't think is a bad thing because it, I will never.

Treat [00:18:00] money or experience money the same way, and I'm forever grateful for that. Doesn't matter how well the business is doing or how stable I am financially, I will always have that mindset around money, which so many unfortunately, female founders say, oh, I can't look at the numbers. I don't understand the numbers.

It's like you have two, you are running the red light on your business. If you don't get a fa with your numbers, with the women's statue, you are celebrating 10 years this year, I believe.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: 11. Actually we've just

Juliet Fallowfield: 11, congratulations. how have you managed the balance between your other roles and that role, given it you are the founder of the women's chapter and you have other revenue streams in your life, like how do you balance that week?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I had to have honest conversations with myself about what really set my heart on fire, which were the parts of my consultancy work that I really loved, but that I was also really good at. And then let go of certain elements of that work and keep the things that I really [00:19:00] wanted to carry on doing.

Because when you're growing a business. It can be very easy for that to be everything that you do,

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I've always had to have one foot in each. my consulting work and the work that I do in the travel industry is incredibly important to me. It's a very big part of my identity. And I think in some way or another, I will always work at that industry.

It's the wonderlust, it's the guest experience, all of it, the storytelling, everything. I'm, I love travel and it's a, it sets my heart on fire. So I feel very fortunate actually, that I get to have what I do for the women's chapter, which inspires me, . I mean, I'm surroundedby incredible women all the time. and I have. created a community and a support network for them. But it's also that for me, and then I have the work that I do in the travel industry, and I did have to let go of some of the projects and things that I was doing that I realized this is a [00:20:00] gut thing, right? when you take on something that isn't really aligned. Your values or your purpose. And one of the biggest lessons I've learned, and actually it was told to me,by Tamara Lohan from Mr. Mr. Smith many years ago, she said, 

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Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: you can always afford to walk away from people or projects that don't align with your values.

Juliet Fallowfield: Because they end up costing you more money in the long run and more time and more stress, more [00:21:00] effort. But it's so hard when you're starting a business to say no to someone that wants to give you money. I think I was. Second year, I remember firing a client and it's the only time I've had to do it, but the way he spoke to a colleague of mine, I was like, absolutely not.

No, and he was so taken aback that I ended the contract, not him, because as a service provider, typically you are the one that gets kicked to the curb and you are the lowly one. And we have now set up a way of onboarding clients that. You come in at a equal level of respect and we get paid at the first of the month or the end of the month.

We ask them to fill out a questionnaire before we have a call with them. So for me, it was really shocking to have to fire a client, but I thought I have to. Quite literally the agency to be able to do this and I do not regret it for a second so what would you recommend a founder do to shore themselves up financially to they have that ability to say no.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: that's a difficult question actually, 'cause I think with every business it's different. But you mentioned earlier about being in your numbers. I by nature, am not. Spreadsheets, analytical person, [00:22:00] but I have to force myself to do that because firstly, it helps you to focus. It helps you to really focus on if purpose is something that's really driving you in your business, it will help you to see where you can drive purpose. And so being financially savvy doesn't mean that you have to have all the answers, ask questions. we do a lot of that within the Women's chapter, really encouraging women to take control of their personal and business finances. and have the difficult conversations, make sure that you are not just. Signing up for things or taking on costs within your business that aren't absolutely essential. so I would say definitely really look at your numbers. Start as you mean to go on. And that's really being analytical about, right? I have this passion, I have a problem I want to solve. I know I can solve it, but who else will this solve the problem for?

Who is my audience? What are my values? But [00:23:00] then also where am I going to make money? Because unless you are driving revenue, you cannot make as much difference as you may want to. And.

Juliet Fallowfield: you don't have a business, and I think a lot of people go, oh, I just wanna do this bit of the business. It's like without cashflow, you have no company. I don't think there's any shame attached to that. People are like, oh,I'd just rather be a creative and let someone else worry about that.

It's then go and work for someone else. . I've got in the habit now, it's almost a form of meditation. If I'm having a stressful day, I'll just look at the spreadsheet, run the numbers, and I it brings my anxiety down because I'm,I'm looking at forecasting, I'm looking at month end and it's it's fine.

It's all fine. It's okay. And it not wasting that time on worry. I think has helped in freeing up your headspace, do you offer within the women's chapters, modules or coaching or support to members or on that, if anyone's listening.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: We have a corporate partner that we're going into our fifth year with them now, and actually this is something that's been really interesting in the evolution of the women's chapter, is that I [00:24:00] did kiss a few corporate partner frogs before I found our existing partner, which is Rathbone's, and. The real point of difference in the way that they've supported our community is they didn't just come in to sell to women because women have been defined as an interesting audience to sell into. because as we know, we hold 85% of consumer power. we make those decisions globally in our homes, in our businesses,

Juliet Fallowfield: And we're actually

recording this on Black Friday, so.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Yeah, and obviously we are very interesting,from a wealth management perspective, but they started to think about, and this was something we co-created with them, how could they support our community beyond selling US products and services? How could they open up their black books of contacts to us?

So for example one of the investment managers made a connection between one of his clients and one of our members who was looking for investment and she secured investment for her business within two weeks.[00:25:00] 

Juliet Fallowfield: My God.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: it's, again, it's that cross-sector power, but, and bringing together professionals and entrepreneurs, but also going beyond the transaction, thinking about how can we be more financially savvy, more financially secure, and future proof, both our personal and business lives. By utilizing our networks and our communities, but by asking questions, asking for help. So, and with them we do run webinars, now around the budget, they had a special budget hub that was set up. People could ask questions. so we do really encourage that. don't put your head in the sand. Ask the questions, ask for help, and. Actually, it's worked out to be incredibly successful, both for them but also for us because the confidence around financial security within our community has grown exponentially.

And as a result, our businesses, because as as a founder, your personal finances and your business finances are inextricably linked, especially when you're a service [00:26:00] provider and you are your business to a certain extent, you are far more exposed. if you go down, it can often mean that your business goes down. So there are a lot more factors at play, I think, from a financial perspective that you need to think about. And certainly that was the position I found myself in December, 2019, thinking, what the hell am I, gonna do?

I've got a thriving passion project, which I've never needed to pay attention to the numbers and make sure that it made money because. I didn't really have much financial responsibility. I put my share of money into the joint account every month.

but then suddenly when you do have to be responsible for all of those things yourself, it forces you to grow up and pay attention really quickly.

 and I'm really glad that I did that because

Juliet Fallowfield: gonna say, it's so exciting though, once you've mastered it,And the autonomy that you have and you can be so proud of yourself for having done this. And look what you've built, look what you've achieved for so many and you're helping, as you mentioned, with purpose. So many other people, do the [00:27:00] same.

For you, looking back when you started in 2014, what do you wish you'd known or what would you have done differently start sooner by the sounds of things.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Start sooner and just start,

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: I would have taken myself more seriously. I would've written a proper business plan, and a business plan doesn't have to be a formal business plan,

but map it out. Think about. The problems you can solve, the tools you have, the skills you have and really map it out and take it seriously. And speak to other people we spend so much time in our own heads and that's why the community. Around us is so important because if you have trusted people around you that you can be vulnerable with, that you can use as a sounding board for your ideas, you'll get to where you're going much faster, or you will also take less wrong turns, I think.

Juliet Fallowfield: A hundred percent the problem. Shared problem halve thing is never to be underestimated. [00:28:00] And that's why I love coworking offices for that exact reason. Because you could be sitting next to a total stranger and just say, can I just ask you a question? Or you eavesdrop a little bit on their Zoom calls and you're like, can I just have a quick chat?

And you never, ever regret those conversations as we said earlier, it's fantastic.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: One of the benefits that came outta COVID, I think, and when we were all forced online, was that people became a lot more accessible. They had more time.

And we were really fortunate with the women's chapter because again, it was one of those things where we were given a kick to move everything online and start running online and events.

And I remember before we ran our first event, I was like, I dunno how to do this. I'm not a techie,

I'm so glad that we did that. But when we moved our business online and we ran two years of free. Online events where some of the most remarkable female business owners in the UK gave up their time to come on and share advice and guidance. it was a really rewarding experience for me, but I think what it [00:29:00] demonstrated was if you don't ask, you don't get. The worst thing that can happen if you reach out to somebody to ask them, and you do need to be respectful of their time, is that they can say no

and. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. You are never gonna run out of people to ask.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Totally. have a hit list of connections. Have a hit list of people that you wanna know and not necessarily because you need something from them, but because you want to be inspired so I think in this digital era that we live in, , that's why there's still so much loneliness

because it doesn't replace in-person connections, but it has made people a lot more accessible and it's. Built a global community and ecosystem for both entrepreneurs and professionals, and we need to utilize that. We have to tap into it and get excited about it.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, and I think just a hack, for anybody listening, the best thing is LinkedIn because people tend to always read their inbox on LinkedIn, whereas if you email them, it might go to spam Instagram. They might not appreciate a business approach on a social media platform. [00:30:00] For us, if we are looking at podcast guests, we'll always DM them on LinkedIn and we know that they'll typically get it. And also on that, I started a podcast and I wanted to talk to people and I started recording friends that gave me advice, but then I realized that if you ask someone to come on a podcast, they'll typically say yes.

If you ask 'em for a cup of tea and Can I pick your brains? They might say a bit more of a no. . so something that we do is ask a question from a previous guest, which was sif from Array, and she was the most wonderful guest last week, but her question for you was, what is the best mistake you've ever made?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Creating a community of women in business.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.

And now look at it.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: 

maybe because it's a big job. I think moderating and managing a community, we've never had. Any major issues, I'm very fortunate to say, but

 it is labor intensive. Yeah.

And make sure that it's meaningful for people because I'm very mindful that communities, the ones that are really successful, do need to be curated in terms [00:31:00] of. How you bring people together, , you know what kind of facilitator and conduit you are as the sort of lead for the community, because to a certain extent, you can just let everybody get on with it. And one of the things that I love about the work that we do at the women's chapter is so often I will see collaborations and. projects, joint projects, on Instagram where people that have come together through Women's Chapter have gone on and created that. And I think that's so magical. But if it weren't, for us thinking about who our people are and Curious women in business, regardless of what they do, the diversity of professions within our community is mind blowing.

we have somebody who turns over millions from running an erotic platform where all of the content is filmed ethically, and everybody's paid.all the way through to obviously fashion, beauty, wellness brands. And I think that's the most exciting part of bringing together these incredible people, [00:32:00] is realizing the extent of opportunity that exists for all of us, and that ties in with that portfolio career. You can create a business outta just about anything, and I think that's really exciting.

 you don't need to join one company and stay with them forever as our grandparents and great-grandparents might have done where you've got a badge of honor because you've got your 30 year service or there. There's so many exciting things and I think the reason that this portfolio career concept has grown so much is economically it was needed. the barrier to entry for any career now is much lower, but it's also really exciting because it allows us as individuals, provided we believe in ourselves to really play to our strengths and to see how we can make something we really love and we really good at, and somebody that somebody else needs, we can make it into a viable business. and from a B Corp perspective, that [00:33:00] realization when we went through that process because we were the first women's network in the UK network or community to get B Corp certification, which I had to get out of

my own way when it came to that because I was like, oh, maybe we are too small.

Maybe we don't do enough. And actually it was such an exciting process to go through that as a creative, I had to reign myself in and I actually landed up working with Cyd Connect. who are the co consultants for the country and Townhouse Awards, and they're women's chapter members.

 I went to them and I

Juliet Fallowfield: And. 

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: you guys actually, yes. And I said, you have to help me because I'm never gonna do this because I'm so excited about all of the opportunities that exist for us in this space in terms of all the things we can do to make a difference that I'm not actually gonna be able to draw down and. Do the paperwork. And so very fortunately, they guided us through that process, but it was so meaningful, and I have by accident, become a real advocate for small businesses.

And I've been on panels with B-Corp to [00:34:00] talk about why, regardless of the shape or size of your business, you don't necessarily need to get a B Corp certification or any sustainability accreditation. Use a framework. a lot of these tools are free and they're available for us to look at and see how we can build these layers of impact into our business. Because doing something is always better than doing nothing,

Juliet Fallowfield: So what would your question be, for our next guest?

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: it would be to ask them. If there's something surprising about them that people don't know or often get wrong,

Juliet Fallowfield: I'm so excited to ask our next guest that question. 'cause weirdly, in all of the episodes that we've had, we've never had the same question.

 So thank you so much.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: If 

I may give

another piece of advice, it's around never underestimating the power of your community. So whether or not you are looking at transitioning your passion project or side hustle into your main hustle, or you are [00:35:00] just needing to take your existing business to the next level. I think back on that kind of superpower that I spoke about

earlier in this constellation way of thinking is never underestimate the power of your community. Most of the time, the people you need, the advice you need, the support you need is within your existing network

Juliet Fallowfield: and. 

they do wanna help. And I think we are really bad at asking for help, but if you ask, if you put your hand up, people will. And that's how this whole podcast started. People found out I was starting my own business and thought, Jules, I'm gonna call you. I want to help. It was incredible.

Absolutely incredible. And I was overwhelmed by it because I'd been at Chanel and big brands was like, I don't need help. You've got budget. We just got our head down and don't show vulnerability. And then suddenly when you start a business, you have to be so vulnerable And so at the coalface, and so okay with that, and I wasn't at all, but people just foisting advice on me.

It's oh right, I'm gonna have to take it. I'm gonna have to do something with it. And then turned it into a podcast and now look, it's just insane.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: Yeah, and also people often have a very negative [00:36:00] experience around networking, and I would challenge listeners to think about, to reframe networking, reframe it as connection

Juliet Fallowfield: Connecting.

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: as a form of self-care

because we are hardwired To connect with each other, to surround ourselves with people that we trust, from birth.

We wouldn't survive if we didn't

rely on the people around us

Juliet Fallowfield: We 

belong in a 

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: are hard 

hardwired for that. So I think my advice where people always say, I hate networking is reframe it. Think about it as a way to really invest in yourself and build a community of people around you no matter how small. Who you can be vulnerable with and who will support you through the tough times. Because when we are disconnected, that is when burnout, lack of confidence, imposter syndrome, all of these things creep in. And I think fortunately now with the focus on health and wellbeing, a really key part of connection is when you feel [00:37:00] connected, your cortisol levels lower. Inflammation lowers, there isn't a biological impact that comes from connection. And as leaders and business owners, when we are calm and connected, we make better decisions. We are better leaders and we lead from a place of this connected, calm, and confidence rather than from a place of fear.

all of this underpins this hard. Wired need. when we lean into it, our need for connection, the positive effects are undeniable.

And so I would challenge anybody who's ever had a bad experience with networking. It was obviously just the wrong network or the wrong place. Try again, reframe it and think about it as an act of self-care and an investment in yourself

and in your business.

Juliet Fallowfield: I love this 'cause we've decided to rerun our health and wellness season over Christmas. There's 12 days of Christmas for founders 'cause it's such a shitty time of year. 'cause you are running a business trying to [00:38:00] take time off everyone's, you've got to rest. You've worked so hard this year, you are strung out burnout, knackered and it's dark and miserable and cold.

So we are rerunning all of that because we know people got a lot of. Comfort from it and connection from it because they could listen to someone and feel supported. But yeah, I completely agree with you. Finding your tribe, your community, your network, whatever it is so crucial to survive running a business.

Michelle, thank you so much for coming on How to start up today. You're an absolute peach of a person creating what you've done, so very big. Thank you for that. And thank you for your 

Michelle Pughe-Parry de Klerk: you. Thank you. I'm really grateful to have been here and I i'm feeling really energized and buzzed on Friday afternoon, so

thank you.

. 

Speaker: If you'd like to contact Michelle, you can find all of her details in the show notes . And tune in next week to hear the founders of Maison me on how to start a business and stay married along with their answer to Michelle's question.